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Design Forum >> Texturing >> Inverse Shadowing
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Message started by Baron von Blutwurs on 25th Mar, 2009 at 2:25am

Title: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Baron von Blutwurs on 25th Mar, 2009 at 2:25am
Hi folks,

I've been messing with FSX materials today and when I applied and exported,(used Imagetool as well),the in-game shadows are reversed. As in the plane is shadowed toward the light source and not while facing away.

What persay could be causing this effect?

Cheers
Randy

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Au-MaV on 25th Mar, 2009 at 11:37am
Hi
could be Bump maps,if they are missing or not formed correctly you will have some weird lighting effects
Cheers

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Baron von Blutwurs on 25th Mar, 2009 at 2:33pm
Thanks for the insight Mav...I have a feeling that might actually be the issue too..

Cheers
Randy

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Baron von Blutwurs on 25th Mar, 2009 at 3:00pm
Hi again Mav,

You were correct....I had forgotten to paste the Red Channel too the to the Alha Channel and then make the Red Channel Black 0/0/0 and INVERT the Green Channel before saving as a  32 bit Targa and processing thru Image tool.

On a note,if you like the idea of inverse shadows to play with,just make your Bump/Normal map in Grey and process with NVidia Plug-in and save as 32 Bit Targa and then Prcess thru Image Tool. It is a bizarre effect to say the least.

Thanks Again m8
Randy

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Fr. Bill on 25th Mar, 2009 at 6:45pm
Just out of curiosity, since you are using the nVidia plugin for Normal Maps, why aren't you also using the nVidia DDS exporter plugin as well?  :-?

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Baron von Blutwurs on 26th Mar, 2009 at 12:18am
sorry Bill,

Ididnt know you could actually use anything but imagetool

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Fr. Bill on 26th Mar, 2009 at 1:47pm
The only "gottcha" using the nVidia DDS plugin is that unlike ImageTool.exe, the image isn't "autoflipped" when saving...

...hence the user must remember to perform an Image/Flip Vertical prior to saving as a DDS file...  8-)

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by FSafranek/FFDS on 28th Mar, 2009 at 11:49am
I got a report back on something similar with one of my Mirage repaints.  It looks fine on my system and no one else who has downloaded and applied it has reported any problems.  I made them correctly.  He is using an NVIDIA 8800 GTS with 512 Mb and the 6.14.11.8122 driver.  Mystery to me.  Luckily it's an isolated case.

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Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Baron von Blutwurs on 31st Mar, 2009 at 1:43am
Thanks for the pics FS,,exactly the problem I encountered.....with the newest Nvidia drivers too....wish these guys would get on the same page. I solved the shadwoing by going DXT5 with Interpolaged ALPHA, but, now my reflections are heavily pixelated....I"m at a loss.

Cheers
Randy

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by DaveNunez on 1st Apr, 2009 at 1:23pm
Sounds like mipmaps are getting in the way - if it is possible, try saving the specular channel without mipmaps on.

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by FSafranek/FFDS on 10th Feb, 2010 at 1:13pm

DaveNunez wrote on 1st Apr, 2009 at 1:23pm:
Sounds like mipmaps are getting in the way - if it is possible, try saving the specular channel without mipmaps on.

Sorry, just spotted your comment Dave.  No mipmaps involved -- never use the stuff.

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by FSDSMAN on 18th Mar, 2010 at 1:59pm

wrote on 26th Mar, 2009 at 1:47pm:
The only "gottcha" using the nVidia DDS plugin is that unlike ImageTool.exe, the image isn't "autoflipped" when saving...

...hence the user must remember to perform an Image/Flip Vertical prior to saving as a DDS file...  8-)

Then what is the benifit of using it?  :-?

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by DaveNunez on 18th Mar, 2010 at 3:46pm
I believe the nvidia plugin lets you save straight to DDS in photoshop, so no need to have an additional tool in the middle of your workflow.

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Fr. Bill on 19th Mar, 2010 at 12:58pm
Dave has the right of it. Since I use the Photoshop .psd file in Max/GMax, I can keep the .psd loaded in Photoshop, make changes, resave it, then see the results instantly in Max/GMax...

After exporting a new model from Max/GMax for FSX, I can then flip the bitmap in Photoshop, Save As DDS/DXT1 or 5 directly from Photoshop and see the results in FSX...

I then "Step Backwards" in Photoshop to "unflip" the master .psd file and I'm ready to keep working in Max/GMax...

For me it's main advantage is a smoother workflow by not having to use any other intermediate programs or steps to accomplish the task(s) required.  ;)

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by FSDSMAN on 19th Mar, 2010 at 1:11pm
Makes good reasoning I guess. Me - I am a FSDS'er (although I have Max and the cut down G version) So with FSDS you can view the model/part and change the texture and see how it maps, wraps or distorts etc on the fly as you model. I also use Paint Shop as I have been doing so for 12 years or so and only use photoshop to do the bumpy stuff as I do not think the nvidia plug-ins work with PSP.
Each to his own I guess and "if it ain't broke - it will be  ;D"

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by deane on 10th Sep, 2010 at 11:36pm
I'm suffering from the same effect, but I'm using Gimp to make my bump maps instead of PSP. I'm using FSDS3.5 and Tweaking. I have followed Dave Nunez's tutorial to the letter but despite spending day of cross checking and re-installing gimp and plugins, I can't get over this last hurdle. Here is a screenshot:

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Note the shadowed sides are bright while the top and lit sides are darker. Any help appreciated

Thanks Deane

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by DaveNunez on 8th Oct, 2010 at 9:56pm
Iiiinteresting....

I have noticed that usually models have both specular and bump maps applied (i.e. not one or the other, but both). What happens if you add a spec map?

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Au-MaV on 9th Oct, 2010 at 12:50am
Hi
After saving from gimp did you run the texture through imagetool with
imagetool -nobeep -nomip -dxt5 -RedInAlpha -dds -nodither *.bmp
Wozza

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by anthony31 on 9th Oct, 2010 at 6:14am
Try making sure you don't have any stray .bmp files in your texture folder. This can sometimes mess up the shadows. I don't know why, it just does, sometimes. FSX can be funny sometimes.

I have a separate texture folder which has all my psp and bmp files in it. I then create my dds files in that folder and then drag them into my FSX texture folder so there are only dds textures in the FSX texture folder.

Secondly, check that your bump map is correct. Mainly the red green and blue components are separated properly. Red should be black, blue should have bump map detail and green should be white. The alpha channel will also contain bump map detail. Compare your bump map with one of the default aircraft bumps.

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by deane on 16th Oct, 2010 at 3:29am

Au-MaV wrote on 9th Oct, 2010 at 12:50am:
Hi
After saving from gimp did you run the texture through imagetool with
imagetool -nobeep -nomip -dxt5 -RedInAlpha -dds -nodither *.bmp
Wozza


Thanks for the replies everybody. Wozza - that was the fix. Looks like the DDS save from GIMP is not working, so I saved from Gimp as a BMP and then ran the textures thru imagetool and all is good. No specular map was required. I'm so happy to overcome this hurdle. I will post some screens of the model soon.

Deane

Title: Re: Inverse Shadowing
Post by Fr. Bill on 16th Oct, 2010 at 10:04am

anthony31 wrote on 9th Oct, 2010 at 6:14am:
The alpha channel will also contain bump map detail. Compare your bump map with one of the default aircraft bumps.


To be precise, the Alpha channel will contain what the Red channel had for its contents when first created...

...that's the reason for the -RedInAlpha switch in the ImageTool command. ;)

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