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FS2k2 to FS9 oddities (Read 3949 times)
27th Apr, 2005 at 2:48am

matholomew   Offline
LDV Engineer
42 is the ultimate answer.
Fairbanks, AK

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I recently imported an FS2k2 plane ive been making into FS9, only to discover that it no longer flies like it should. the flaps, which use to make me able to hover at a near standstill, now have very little effect on anything, the engines seem to have lost power, and im not getting the lift i used to enjoy. how does FS9 read the .air and aircraft.cfg files differently, and how would I rectify this most unfortunate situation?
Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: 29th Apr, 2005 at 2:09am by matholomew »  

-Matt&&
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Reply #1 - 29th Apr, 2005 at 2:14am

matholomew   Offline
LDV Engineer
42 is the ultimate answer.
Fairbanks, AK

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Apparently, not to many people (9,  less with the times that I've looked at it) have noticed this yet, so I am giving it a bump. PLEASE help me  Cry
 

-Matt&&
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Reply #2 - 29th Apr, 2005 at 4:48am

Paco Sanchez   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I want axis-driven animations
back NOW!!!
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Hi Matt,

Maybe if you post your aircraft.cfg, or part of it, we can give you some hints.

FS9 does handle flight dynamics in a rather different way than FS2002 did. In fact, I had to re-tune my ATR for FS2004, but as far as I recall I didn't touch the air file much.

When it was released, it was pointed out by dynamics gurus (Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register) that FS9 flight dynamics are lacking the realism that FS2002 had.

Paco
 

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Reply #3 - 29th Apr, 2005 at 4:49am

Paco Sanchez   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I want axis-driven animations
back NOW!!!
Vigo, Spain

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And yes, my ATR was way underpowered too when ported into FS9. For that, I had to tweak the propeller efficiency tables in the air file.
Paco
 

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Reply #4 - 29th Apr, 2005 at 1:47pm

lionheart   Offline
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Phoenix Arizona

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I have noticed this too.  I was also told that they (FS at MS) might be phasing out the .AIR files totally.  (Dont know yet).  But such a move would then disable the problem of two diff. programming plateaus to tell the plane what to do, etc.

That ATR was awesome Paco.  You should make another.  Those props were perfectly animated.  Awesome ship.  I flew the heck out of mine!   Wink

Bill
 

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Reply #5 - 30th Apr, 2005 at 12:12am

Au-MaV   Offline
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Whatcha lookin at
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Hi Maybe this may help
not sure where I got it frombut look like it originated from
Flightsim Gateway
Wozza


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  2002 planes in 2004
Just found this at Flightsim Gateway and looks to be the most comprehensive conversion detail I've yet seen!

"1. Using AirEd (Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register), open the AIR file in the default FS2002 737-400 folder. Copy the Section 1534 from there (or any other plane with that section) by right clicking on the "1534 button" and choosing Copy to Clipboard. Then open your plane's AIR file and right click on any button - choose Add to Airfile (can't remember exact wording).


2. Click on the 1534 button to open the section, and click on any line that isn't 0.00. Edit the number to 0.00, and then press Enter. Do this for any non-zero line. This fixes the nose heavy trim.

3. Now leave AirEd running and open the plane's aircraft.cfg file by double clicking it. Go down to the Aircraft Geometry section and write down the values for wing_incidence and wing_twist. Now calculate the number: wing_incidence + wing_twist/2 divided by 57.3.

Example: wing_incidence = 5, wing_twist = -2

5 + -2/2 / 57.3 = 5 + -1 / 57.3 = 4/57.3 = 0.0698 (0.07).

4. Now back in AirEd click on the 404 button. A graph will open up. Press the right arrow key twice to put you on the third data point (we will ignore the first two and last two data points). Now press the x key. A number to edit will pop up. We need to subtract the number we calculated in #3 from this number (since this data point is negative, we add the number to it - example: data point = -.16, so -.16 + -0.07 = -0.23). Press enter. Then press the right arrow and x keys to bring up the next data point. Once the data points become positive (or zero) you will need to subtract the value instead. Continue this process until the antipenultimate point is reached (the third from the last) - you don't need to change the last two points. This fixes the pitch (too nose-up).

5. Now click on the 1101 button, and look for the Drag section. At the top of that section is Zero Lift drag. Reduce this value by a first guess of 16-19%, based on how much too slow the plane is in FS2004 vs FS2002 in mid level cruise at middle weights. We will fine tune this value later to fix the drag (plane is too slow).

6. Save the file in AirEd, and quit the program.

7. Now, back to the aircraft.cfg file we opened in step 3 (or double click it again). Go down to the Piston Engine section and increase the critical_altitude value by about 3500 ft (i.e. change 5000 ft to 8500 ft). You can fine tune this number by checking in FS2002 during a climb at what altitude the MAP starts to drop. Change this variable's value until it is the same in FS2004. This fixes the problem of piston planes losing power at too low an altitude (piston only).

8. In the Aircraft Geometry section, change the wing_pos_apex_lon value to wing_root_chord/4. Example: if wing_root_chord = 8.6, then set wing_pos_apex_lon to 2.15. This fixes the position of the CG "datum" (black and white circle) in the Fuel and Payload diagram.

9. In the General Engine section, change the min_throttle_limit to around 0.1. This will fix the piston engines dying at idle (piston only).

10. Edit the station load lines of the Weight and Balance section to change to the new FS2004 format. See one of my update files for the new format. It's best if you leave the default weights to be under the MTOW when at full fuel, and in balance (i.e. equal weight ahead and behind the center of gravity.

11. Include details of this new weight and balance in the checklist file (if any) - see my new CV-340 checklist file for details.

12. Flight testing. Check the following:

a. Cruise at a mid level (12-17,000 ft) and check the cruise speeds vs when the plane is flown in FS2002. Vary the Zero Lift Drag number in AirEd to fine tune this number.

b. Check the takeoff behavior, and make sure that you change the listed trim setting for takeoff in the Reference file, if necessary (I had to change one, out of 5 so far). The takeoff trim value should give a smooth takeoff at the proper rotation speed as given in the Reference file, and minimum elevator force needed for the takeoff and intial climb (but not too nose up on final climb).

c. Check the landing behavior, and make sure with an AP landing (set on APR mode) that you don't run out of trim before touchdown (the plane will nose into the ground). Also check the braking behavior - you should be able to stop within the distance usually described in the Reference file. In any case, check the landing distance in FS2002 and FS2004. If different, change the toe_brake_scalar (?) in the new braking section of the aircraft.cfg file until it's the same. I had to increase most of mine in the larger aircraft.
 
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Reply #6 - 30th Apr, 2005 at 1:59am

lionheart   Offline
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Phoenix Arizona

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oi!  eeez ah blehdin eeeengah-neeeahr type, eh?

Shocked
 

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Reply #7 - 11th May, 2005 at 3:49am

matholomew   Offline
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Fairbanks, AK

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Thanks a bundle Au-Mav.  It flies nearly exactly like it used to.    Sorry I took so long, but I've been busy lately.
 

-Matt&&
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Reply #8 - 18th Aug, 2005 at 10:34am

dfp   Offline
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I have put planes into fs9 from fs2002  a few times and found out the landing gear wont go down. They just stay there
 

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Reply #9 - 18th Aug, 2005 at 11:36am

Fr. Bill   Offline
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I used to have a life:
now I have GMax...
Hammond, IN

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Quote:
I have put planes into fs9 from fs2002  a few times and found out the landing gear wont go down. They just stay there


Of course they won't work.  If the model in question is NOT a GMax or FSDS model, then many animations will not work.

This has been known for over two years already... Wink
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #10 - 3rd Nov, 2005 at 1:44pm

lionheart   Offline
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Phoenix Arizona

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My awesome Falcon tri-jet I had downloaded years back fell to this disaster.  I logged tons of hours in that sweet plane.  Now, she is a hover vehicle when on the ground, having lost her legs to '04'.

Oh well....

Matt, what plane did you have that could hover?
 

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Reply #11 - 3rd Nov, 2005 at 9:01pm

matholomew   Offline
LDV Engineer
42 is the ultimate answer.
Fairbanks, AK

Gender: male
Posts: 275
****
 
It was actually a LEGO set I had.  I couldn't think of a good idea for a project and I saw it sitting on my shelf.  It then became my first fullblown project.  If I remember, ill post a picture later.
 

-Matt&&
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