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Reply #15 - 10th Mar, 2007 at 6:55pm

lionheart   Offline
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Fr. Bill,

What I am saying is they were taking advice from payware groups and I believe were working more closer with payware groups then freeware.

Lets face it, payware groups are extremely intense on the hard facts with FS as it is their very survival, not just a hobby, thus it makes them a very good source to listen to.

However, I think that some things lead to some things and a 'direction' of sorts.  For instance, why use so many GUID's?  Is that for tracking payware models?  or for actually making it easier on frame rates on an aircraft...  

I am not being a finger pointer.  Just stressing that advice may have been heard most from payware and that it influenced the outcome.  No more no less.  If I were in charge of Aces, I could see this happening.  You want the best advice you can get.

There is a famous saying that car designers and car engineers hear alot.  There was a team of people that were assembled to design a 'horse'.  One wanted best mileage, one wanted best speed, one wanted most best ride, while another wanted the best terrain system available.  What the team came up with was a camel...    Too many voices, too many directions.

Then there are the engineers that say 'KISS'...    Keep it simple dude....

 

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Reply #16 - 11th Mar, 2007 at 7:21pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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ACES biggest mistake, fault, and otherwise major faux pas was, and continues to be, their utter lack of attention to that most excellent source of knowledge, Inspector Poly.

Having said that, it does appear that many people - both in the freeware and payware environment, were actively listened to, and most importantly, for probably sound internal (to ACES/Microsoft) reasons at the time, IGNORED.  One only has to scan past postings, here and in other forums, for tidbits from beta testers to the effect that "we told them time and again that xxxx was screwed up...  "

I dare say that ACES/Microsoft listened to the various inputs, took what was offered, and used as best they could.  Remember, they were, in a sense, limited by forcing backward compatibility (and I don't blame them, look what happened to CFS3)

I'm willing to add a Missions Forum, see how it turns out, with the understanding that there may be other venues that may have better discussions of the Missions SDK, just as the AVSIM Design forum is one of the better places for gauge design, and fsdeveloper.com/scenery.org for scenery, and avhistory.org for flight dynamics....


 

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Reply #17 - 11th Mar, 2007 at 11:48pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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lionheart wrote on 10th Mar, 2007 at 6:55pm:
However, I think that some things lead to some things and a 'direction' of sorts.  For instance, why use so many GUID's?  Is that for tracking payware models?  or for actually making it easier on frame rates on an aircraft...  


Actually, the concept of GUIDs has absolutely nothing to do with either ACES, FS, or tracking models per se. There are many reasons for using GUIDs, but for purposes of the sim they allow entire "objects" to be referenced using a single, unique number.

It is simply more efficient for the rendering engine to use GUID to say "apply this operation to that collection of "things", which constitute <THIS> object."

Completely aside from which, what is your concern?  When creating an aircraft model, only one GUID is needed, and you don't even have to make one up yourself!  When making a scenery object, one would need to create a unique GUID, but that too is a simple process.

And of course, when adding a new <Animation> to modeldef.xml one needs a unique GUID. This takes all of perhaps four seconds to accomplish.

Consider the odds of two people giving the same scenery or aircraft object the same "name," and then consider that the odds of creating a duplicate GUID are precisely
1 : 3.4028236692093846346337460743177e+38

Putting it into a more easily visualized number, if you had 1,000,000 computers each generating 1,000,000 GUIDs per day, in 5 years you would have generated less than 2% of the total possible number of unique GUIDs...  Grin

I honestly don't see why anyone would be all that concerned with the issue...  Shocked

Oh yes, and Felix... I'm not referring to the "beta team" here, but rather those who came nearly a full year b]before[/b] the "beta team..."
 

Fr. Bill
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Reply #18 - 12th Mar, 2007 at 1:43am

lionheart   Offline
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One of the statements that was told to people during the 'beta' times, was 'Not this time around'.  I saw this statement a number of times.

With space (outer space), one could do so many darn incredible things..  But if engines dont run in space, then what the heck?  The next FS will take how long to come about?  6 years?  So for 6 years, we deal with space 'being' there and no way to use it.  Oh, yeah, we can slew there, lol...    

Thank you Fr. Bill for the tutorial on GUID's.  

Why not simply create a compiler that inserts the GUID code for you and why not create an automated assignment system that saves a file in the project save file in Max/Gmax for that project so that you can retain the invaluable GUID's.  The 'plug-in' automated GUID assignment system would simply manage it for you and simpletons like me would only need to click 'Ok, yes, assign the rudder and ailerons their own GUID's and save to master GUID file please' button.  Seems that this is the year 2007 and we should have systems that generate code for us, but I guess not.  (Yes, I know there is a code generator, but, well..     nevermind).

I do look forward to the missions forum.  This should be pretty cool.  I myself am working on a missions interface for FS9, lol.  Would love to show everyone how it works when I get it completed.
 

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Reply #19 - 12th Mar, 2007 at 9:38am

jonbouy   Offline
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@Bill (lionheart)

I'm sitting here silently urging you to make the FSX development plunge, your FS9 techniques that you have clearly illustrated for our benefit on here have been indispensable, at least to me.

I've seen various concerns raised by yourself in various posts about the changes required the GUID 'issue' being one of those things that during my initial 'studies' has already proved to be a non-issue.
I notice that XML being case sensitive is one of the other issues that you cite as being a problem, but bear in mind that FS9 isn't fussy about case once you have converted your existing code for case in order to work with FSX FS9 is not going to complain about caps at all.  After all XML by it's very nature is supposed to completely unambiguous and being case sensitive brings it closer to the standard.
Having to key frame axis animations, e.g. props and control surfaces, doesn't seem such a big bug bear as it did to me initially either once you have them set up for FSX it's a snip to remove them (and I'm not sure so far whether doing that is even necessary) for the FS9 version and mostly the axes are in the right position after key framing them anyways.
Which leaves the biggest issue as being the new materials, an area which you undoubtedly have excelled in with FS9, and an area I'm sure we'll all appreciate your eye in, in the future, with all the new texture techniques that are becoming available to us as we ALL get our heads around them.

As for running the sim presently its out of the question for me but at least I can check via the slideshow that my models are showing up correctly and much of the flight model can be developed in FS9 leaving beta testers with 'Goliath' machines to check ride them.  I'm sure too that in the long term too the unpaid beta testers or early adopters will have corrected the flaws in the game by FSX SP3 by which time FS9 will be the old version of the sim Grin

I'm sure its easier for me a relatively newbie to make the changes required as I have not been a successful developer like you, for the period of time you have where you have created your own methods and techniques in a particular way and made them your own.  But I do hope you take the plunge real soon because the hobby would be that bit less complete without your input

Regards

Jon
 

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Reply #20 - 12th Mar, 2007 at 3:33pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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lionheart wrote on 12th Mar, 2007 at 1:43am:
Thank you Fr. Bill for the tutorial on GUID's.  

Why not simply create a compiler that inserts the GUID code for you and why not create an automated assignment system that saves a file in the project save file in Max/Gmax for that project so that you can retain the invaluable GUID's.  The 'plug-in' automated GUID assignment system would simply manage it for you and simpletons like me would only need to click 'Ok, yes, assign the rudder and ailerons their own GUID's and save to master GUID file please' button.  Seems that this is the year 2007 and we should have systems that generate code for us, but I guess not.  (Yes, I know there is a code generator, but, well..     nevermind).


You are welcome, to be sure.  However, it appears that I've still not managed to make reality transparent enough for your comprehension.  This is entirely my fault though, I'm sure!   Embarrassed

You are simply making a "mountain out of a molehill" with all this anxiety.

The GUIDs are pre-supplied in the modeldef.xml file for all ACES supplied, stock animations. The modeler never has to deal with them, ever!

The only GUID a modeler must be concerned with in most cases is the one for the Max/GMax project, and that is handled automatically by the plugin.  One simply opens the "LODName Tool," clicks on "Create GUID for this file" and then types in a "Friendly Name."  DONE!  Grin

Any new "<Animation>" code the modeler might create does need to have a unique GUID for use in the modeldef.xml file, but once again that is a trivial matter, and only needs to be done once!

What I do is simply copy/paste any of the existing ones at random, then change at least one number in each of the groups:

guid="A6F1C5D0-BEF6-449e-BAF8-FB777F27808F"

guid="B6F1C5D0-CEF6-549e-CAF8-0B777F27808F"

All I've done in the example above was to add 1 to each of the first digits in each group...

A + 1 = B
B + 1 = C
4 + 1 = 5
B + 1 = C
F + 1 = 0

I deliberately kept this example "simple," but in reality I change numbers within each group randomly...  Cheesy

I sure hope this is clear enough, 'cause I sure can't think of any way to make it simpler...   Wink
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #21 - 12th Mar, 2007 at 3:49pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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'Tis easy, now guidalong doggie!

 

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Reply #22 - 12th Mar, 2007 at 4:41pm

jonbouy   Offline
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Quote:
'Tis easy, now guidalong doggie!


Oh my Guid  Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #23 - 12th Mar, 2007 at 5:00pm

andyjohnston.net   Offline
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I just use the GUID Generating Tool, isn't that the easiest way?
 
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Reply #24 - 12th Mar, 2007 at 5:14pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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andyjohnston.net wrote on 12th Mar, 2007 at 5:00pm:
I just use the GUID Generating Tool, isn't that the easiest way?



If it works for you, so much the better!  Ulimately, it's whatever you're comfortable with that works.



 

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Reply #25 - 13th Mar, 2007 at 8:07pm

lionheart   Offline
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Many thanks guys for working with my anxiety with these changes. 

Thanks also Jonbouy.  I will certainly try to rejoin with the group when I get caught up here and share in the....    the....    arrghhh...   STRESSSSS!    lol

Shocked    Lips Sealed    Grin
 

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Reply #26 - 26th Mar, 2007 at 11:31pm

jonbouy   Offline
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jonbouy wrote on 10th Mar, 2007 at 8:00am:
I'm gonna truly wet myself laughing if this SDK situation is merely a MS web upgrade issue and they all re-appear in the next coupla weeks.
Grin Grin Grin


Grin Grin Grin .....  Embarrassed  Shocked
 

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Reply #27 - 12th Apr, 2007 at 1:24am

MountainHighAir   Offline
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Well, my 2 cents is that I love FSX. Yes, I miss some of the planes that work only in past versions, but I guess FS needed somewhat of an overhaul at some time. Why not now? Technology with all games is changing and I think Aces is thinking of the future. I think FS is going to be so complex in years to come that they needed to make changes now in order to open up a new frontier for future development. I miss my Stearman and my Sea Fury, and I am frustrated as a panel designer at the new XML pop-ups, but I have to realize that the foundation has been layed for a magnificent future.

I also play Battlefield 2, a first-person-shooter game, and EA Games has totally slammed the door in the face of its own customers. EA is a terrible company with little vision. When I bought FSX I was amazed that MS gave us all the SDKs and Gmax right on the disks! They are taking a whole different approach than EA Games. They are embracing us modders instead of shutting us out. I applaud them for that.

I just hope they have learned their lesson from CFS3. That was a total debacle! Who's idea was that to create a whole different game engine?? Hopefully CFS4 will be built on the FSX engine and return balance to the world. LOL

Will we see a merger of FS and CFS? Will space flight be introduced and CFS Space come about from this? Will they ever give us a fricken rocket engine? Grrrrr...
 
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