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[WIP] Do-328 (Read 20609 times)
26th Mar, 2008 at 6:13pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
Wismar (GER)

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Hi everyone!

I am Björn and I like to push innocent vertices around...


And this is what I'm working on:
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I thought I could feel confident after having finally finished the basic exterior stuff, but you guys make me question my abilities by presenting all your excellent and skillful work.  Embarrassed Tongue Cheesy

Sorry for the frakked up normals, must have happend while joining all the parts together with the attach tool.


Anyways, what you can see here will (someday) be a FSX Do-328, featuring a VC and all the usual FSX texture features.
Once the prop version is finished, I'm going to do the 328JET (which fortunately won't be that much work).


Still, I'm quite proud of myself already for having made it this far!  Cheesy


Björn


P.S: Hi, Felix and hi, Lionheart! Smiley
 

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Reply #1 - 26th Mar, 2008 at 7:25pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Oh, nice work so far!  I'm glad you're doing the DO328T, 'cause I've been working on the DO328J for several years now... Wink
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #2 - 27th Mar, 2008 at 1:11pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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Thanks, Bill!
 

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Reply #3 - 22nd May, 2008 at 8:33pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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*Bump*

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Not much progress on the first look, but I've spent a good amount of hours (after a long pause due to a move and uni related work) refining the exterior and reworking some areas.



Next up before mirroring: Cutting out flaps, ailerons, spoilers, elevators, the main gear doors and adding some details.


She's coming along...surely but nicely.
 

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Reply #4 - 23rd May, 2008 at 4:31am

mariopilot   Offline
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woo-hooo!
good craftmanship mate!
it looks awesome! Shocked
 

Mariopilot
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Reply #5 - 23rd May, 2008 at 6:56am

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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Thanks, Mario! Very much appreciated!  Smiley
 

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Reply #6 - 20th Jul, 2008 at 9:53pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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*Bump*

Didn't have time for Donnie the last two months, but it's summer break now and I hope to get some big chunks of work done on her/him/it.
I've spent the last three days doing the control surfaces.


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The angles are purely hypothetical, since I couldn't find any data on the maximum angles of the 328's control surfaces.
(Do you have some information on that, Fr.Bill? And I need some more information regarding the 328, more specifically about the spoilers. Can I drop you an e-mail in the next few days?)

Also, I've improved the wings a bit and moved and stretched the engine to better correspond with reference photographs.


Next up is the main gear and gearbay.


- Edit: Sorry for the blocky appearance. 3DS Max likes to mess up normals when you attach one object to another.

- Edit #2: I can't believe you can actually do some modeling on a 14.1" notebook screen.  Grin
 

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Reply #7 - 20th Jul, 2008 at 11:17pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Hint: Remove all smoothing before Attaching new parts. Then add back smoothing if desired.

My sources give me 60º for the main speedbrakes, and 50º max deflection for the outboard spoilerons.
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #8 - 21st Jul, 2008 at 2:29am

Mark958   Offline
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Quote:
Hint: Remove all smoothing before Attaching new parts. Then add back smoothing if desired.

I know this isn't really the place to ask, Bill. But. Why?

SORRY  BJOERN!
 

Be happy! Life's too short not to be!

Core i7 870, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Nvidia 1280MB GTX470, 24" LCD, 2 x 1TB HDD, 1 x 500GB HDD & 1 x 320GB External HDD, Windows 7 Professional 64bit
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Reply #9 - 21st Jul, 2008 at 2:49am

mariopilot   Offline
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Still no control surface angles here, but it may prove useful (data type certificates always proved useful for me)

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Cheesy
 

Mariopilot
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Reply #10 - 21st Jul, 2008 at 2:43pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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Bill: Does unifying normals count as smoothing? And I second mark on that "Why?".


Mark: No problem.


Mario: Thanks for the link. Smiley
 

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Reply #11 - 21st Jul, 2008 at 4:46pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I used to have a life:
now I have GMax...
Hammond, IN

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Mark958 wrote on 21st Jul, 2008 at 2:29am:
Quote:
Hint: Remove all smoothing before Attaching new parts. Then add back smoothing if desired.

I know this isn't really the place to ask, Bill. But. Why?

SORRY  BJOERN!


Removing the Smoothing Groups prior to Attaching will allow the newly Attached object to "inherit" the normal orientation of the parent part.

Then, when you add Smoothing Groups back to the combined mesh, the normals be be properly smoothed again (fewer potential "shadow problems")...  Cool
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #12 - 21st Jul, 2008 at 4:47pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Björn wrote on 21st Jul, 2008 at 2:43pm:
Bill: Does unifying normals count as smoothing? And I second mark on that "Why?".


Mark: No problem.


Mario: Thanks for the link. Smiley


No. I'm referring ONLY to "Smoothing Groups"... The purpose of which is explained in my previous reply above. It will allow attached mesh to inherit the normal orientation of the parent.

BTW, if you haven't already looked, here are some WIP's of our DO328J in the sim:

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Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #13 - 23rd Jul, 2008 at 1:25pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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Quote:
BTW, if you haven't already looked, here are some WIP's of our DO328J in the sim:

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Nice "Please Log In" screen. Wink

Sorry, Bill. I'm not much of a fan of forum accounts only serving to view pictures, so I'll pass on that one.  Lips Sealed Smiley
Are those pictures brand new ones or did you already post them in another thread right here?
And I'm sure everything on that -300 looks way better than anything on mine. Grin

Thanks for the smoothing explanations. I've never worked with smoothing groups before though, so I'll need to experiment a bit.



Mario, that document is very helpful. I finally found out that the maximum flap angle is 32° and that I won't need to do a -100, just a -110 to -130.  Grin
 

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Reply #14 - 24th Jul, 2008 at 12:16pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Björn wrote on 23rd Jul, 2008 at 1:25pm:
Nice "Please Log In" screen. Wink

Sorry, Bill. I'm not much of a fan of forum accounts only serving to view pictures, so I'll pass on that one.  Lips Sealed Smiley
Are those pictures brand new ones or did you already post them in another thread right here?
And I'm sure everything on that -300 looks way better than anything on mine. Grin


Sorry. I had tried to edit the post to provide direct links, but the forum's hosting service suddenly went into stealth mode and I lost my edits...

Yes, they are the same as previously posted, so you didn't miss anything. I've got the project on hold until the gauge coding is completed. I cannot finish the VC until all the gauges are completed.  Shocked
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #15 - 25th Jul, 2008 at 1:29pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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Quote:
Yes, they are the same as previously posted, so you didn't miss anything. I've got the project on hold until the gauge coding is completed. I cannot finish the VC until all the gauges are completed.  Shocked


Hm, sounds like the model will feature some "smooth" in-model gauges.


Instruments for the VC will be another problem for me, even though I don't want to do a full system simulation.
But thankfully this is still miles away. Grin
 

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Reply #16 - 25th Jul, 2008 at 8:14pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Björn wrote on 25th Jul, 2008 at 1:29pm:
Quote:
Yes, they are the same as previously posted, so you didn't miss anything. I've got the project on hold until the gauge coding is completed. I cannot finish the VC until all the gauges are completed.  Shocked


Hm, sounds like the model will feature some "smooth" in-model gauges.


Nope. All the gauges are C++/GDI+. I'm not coding the gauges for this project, so that's why I'm waiting, and waiting, and waiting...  Roll Eyes
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #17 - 27th Jul, 2008 at 12:55pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
Wismar (GER)

Gender: male
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***
 
Quote:
Nope. All the gauges are C++/GDI+. I'm not coding the gauges for this project, so that's why I'm waiting, and waiting, and waiting...  Roll Eyes


Oh, I see!

A classic demonstration of how the otherwise logical and efficient concept of teamwork can backfire.
I hope you'll get your gauges and I'm pretty sure you won't be bored at all while waiting for them. Wink
 

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Reply #18 - 27th Jul, 2008 at 7:33pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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I used to have a life:
now I have GMax...
Hammond, IN

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Björn wrote on 27th Jul, 2008 at 12:55pm:
Quote:
Nope. All the gauges are C++/GDI+. I'm not coding the gauges for this project, so that's why I'm waiting, and waiting, and waiting...  Roll Eyes


Oh, I see!

A classic demonstration of how the otherwise logical and efficient concept of teamwork can backfire.
I hope you'll get your gauges and I'm pretty sure you won't be bored at all while waiting for them. Wink


Oh Lord no! I'm never bored! I have far too many projects to work on for that to happen.  I've always got something that can be worked on...  Grin

The person doing the gauge coding has two other, more critical projects at the moment, so I fully understand the delay.  Tongue
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #19 - 25th Sep, 2008 at 8:35pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
Wismar (GER)

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*Bump*

It's been a struggle, but madmoiselle now has one of her main legs.
The "details" wouldn't have been possible without Bill L.'s drawings.
So thank you again, Bill!
You caused me a lot of unplanned extra work (Wink), but I have a fairly realistic, nonetheless simplified main gear now.
And I finally got to realize that the 328's designers were awfully clever S.O.Bs. A nice gear mechanism they thought of there... Cheesy



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Boy, do I look forward animating and texturing this stuff!  Shocked  Tongue



But first of all, it's all about adding one or two or three final details to the fuselage and wings (e.g. small fins and the flap attachments), fixing something here and there before I take the biggest step so far - mirroring the fuselage!
 

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Reply #20 - 25th Sep, 2008 at 11:29pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Dang! Nice looking gear!

Makes mine look shabby even with some clothes on...  Undecided

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Shot at 2008-09-25
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #21 - 26th Sep, 2008 at 12:49pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
Wismar (GER)

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Well, at least you have the more detailed tyres.  Grin


(I'm hoping that some bump maps will add some depth to mine.)



By the way: What does the "clamp" on the main gear leg do? Holding the damper or so?
 

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Reply #22 - 21st Feb, 2009 at 7:22pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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*Kick*

Still at it...lol.

Big milestone: Nose Landing Gear plus my first animation (NLG gear doors...what a PITA!)
Small milestones: Countless detail improvements, resolved shading problems and a completely redone vertical stabilizer.

And I think I found the perfect three-views. They're from the Welcome Air homepage and perfectly detailed, yet a bit small.


Current state of the model after some frantic, quick and dirty mirroring...


First of all, the NLG:

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Now, the MLG (with more detailed wheels):

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Finally, for an overview, front, side and top down views:

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This is looking better than I've expected. I'm so proud of myself that I could cry... Grin



Next up: Windows, doors, interieur, animations and textures.  Tongue



- Edit:
Heh, I just realized that I've almost got an AI model at this time. A 44000 poly AI model... Grin
 

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Reply #23 - 22nd Feb, 2009 at 9:09am

mariopilot   Offline
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Fly to Live, Live to Fly
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Quote:
*Kick*
Next up: Windows, doors, interieur, animations and textures.  Tongue


[goof mode on] I hope that you are planing to install Vista Windows on this craft! if you craft 7 Winodws Beta editions it will stop working shortly...  Tongue Tongue  [goof mode off]

Great job on a great plane Mate!
 

Mariopilot
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Reply #24 - 22nd Feb, 2009 at 1:46pm

Björn   Offline
Spline Extruder
Do-328
Wismar (GER)

Gender: male
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mariopilot wrote on 22nd Feb, 2009 at 9:09am:
[goof mode on] I hope that you are planing to install Vista Windows on this craft! if you craft 7 Winodws Beta editions it will stop working shortly...  Tongue Tongue  [goof mode off]


LoL!

Nah, the Windows will be XP. Stable and clean... Grin

Quote:
Great job on a great plane Mate!


Grazie, Mario!  Smiley
 

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Reply #25 - 12th Mar, 2009 at 9:55am

nextlevelsims   Offline
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hey Björn!

That looks fantastic!!!
 

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Reply #26 - 13th Mar, 2009 at 3:29pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
Wismar (GER)

Gender: male
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Thanks!

Made some progress since publishing those pictures, but the passenger door with its complicated bar construction is killing the motivation to continue for me big time at the moment.

Need to kick my butt a bit to take up work again. LoL!
 

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Reply #27 - 2nd May, 2009 at 11:21pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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No fancy promo images with a fully mirrored model this time, but enough highlights to make you say " Shocked" anyways.  Grin
Doors, windows, a simple cockpit, the rudder and ten brazillions of detail improvements.

It's even "watertight" now! (Although it was one hell of a battle. Tongue)


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Next up: Textures! (Oh boy...) Then animations! (Yay...Tongue) Plus details (Working windscreen wipers...) And flight dynamics! (Any takers? Please?)



P.S: Could anyone lend me a low poly (~10000 max) pilot model to man that simple cockpit? Please?
 

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Reply #28 - 3rd May, 2009 at 8:05pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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Two milestones within 24 hours! I might break some personal records here... Grin

UVW mapped fuselage:
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I had to divide the whole model into multiple parts for that. An incredible amount of work, especially the cabin. Tongue


By the way, is there a good Max 9 plugin to facilitate the annoying UVW Unwrap?
I simply hate realigning stray edges...
 

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Reply #29 - 4th May, 2009 at 9:18pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
Wismar (GER)

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I slowly but surely start hating this "UVW Unwrap" stuff.  Lips Sealed

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Reply #30 - 5th May, 2009 at 10:43am

Fr. Bill   Offline
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I used to have a life:
now I have GMax...
Hammond, IN

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Quote:
I slowly but surely start hating this "UVW Unwrap" stuff.  Lips Sealed



Without any question whatever, you are definitely not using UVW Unwrap correctly... Shocked

When in the UVW Unwrap Editor, you should NOT be adjusting individual vertex points. The only thing you should be doing there is adjusting entire sets of vertices for their position on the template.
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #31 - 5th May, 2009 at 6:06pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
Wismar (GER)

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Except for any stray edges, I'm just using the Freeform modifier to adjust the entire

Select the Polys I want to map, put in a "UVW map" modifier, select "Mapping: Face" there, then put in "UVW Unwrap", load the bitmap in the editor, "Normal map" (left/right) the polys to get rid of that garbled mess, fix any loose edges and freeform all the polys/vertices/edges (as one big selection) on the texture.

I don't know what went wrong with the rudder though. It's basically symmetrical (in terms of polys) and still gives me two differently "distorted" groups of polygons, which are awfully hard to fit perfectly.



- Edit: The non-fitting squares are due to the texture. This is just a test texture to see if two sides of a symmetrical object are mapped well (perfect fit), NOT to check the whole model!

- Edit²: Never mind the rudder. Simply mirrored one mapped side and moved the freshly mirrored map to its new place. Perfect seams now.
 

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Reply #32 - 5th May, 2009 at 7:45pm

Björn   Offline
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Do-328
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Fixed rudder with one uniform map.

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Reply #33 - 5th May, 2009 at 7:59pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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I used to have a life:
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Looking better.  What I do is (re)attach the rudder, doors, etc. to the fuselage, UVW Map/UnWrap/Edit the mesh...

...then Select by Element the rudder, doors, etc. and Detach to their original names...

Then, and only then do I animate them...  Cool
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #34 - 6th May, 2009 at 8:24pm

Björn   Offline
Spline Extruder
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Thanks, you had me scared there a bit! Shocked  Cheesy

That attaching/reattaching thing is darn clever, this might save me a lot of work when mapping the wings (ailerons, flaps, spoilerons, speed brakes...). Thanks for the hint!


By the way: Can I leave some invisible parts of the mesh unmapped/untextured? Or is FSX going to complain about this?
 

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Reply #35 - 7th May, 2009 at 12:23pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Well, if they are truly "invisible," why have them at all? OTOH, if there's a chance they might be seen from some angle, then they should have a texture assignment.

The exporter will b*tch and moan about untextured polygons.  The best thing is to Map & Texture every stinking polygon...

Hint: one thing you can do is give every polygon that you don't want to "paint in detail" a unique MatID number such as 99. You can then Select all polys with a MatID of 99 (Select by Material ID), add a single UVW Map, a UVW Unwrap modifier, and then use the UVW Editor to scale/place all the unwrapped mesh to one corner of your assigned texture sheet where you've placed a 20x20 pixel block of color, such as "aviation green primer" or such...  Grin
 

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Reply #36 - 8th May, 2009 at 2:58pm

Björn   Offline
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Thanks for the "attach - deattach" hint, Bill!

I redid the fuselage and all doors yesterday (but forgot the rudder...but well, looked quite good anyways) and it worked like a charm! Well, except for destroying preexisting animations, of course. But thanks to backups, the keys could be restored (almost) a jiffy. Smiley
 

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Reply #37 - 8th May, 2009 at 6:50pm

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The way I've found to preserve animations/axis of rotation when I need to map or remap is to select the part, detach ALL the polygons and then attach the polygons to the fuselage or whatever I'm mapping.  After mapping, select the polys and then detach as as some object, then select the original part using the "Select by Name" window.  Reattach the polys and voila!  You have preserved both the animations as well as the rotational axis.
 

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Reply #38 - 8th May, 2009 at 7:54pm

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That technique does work quite well for re-mapping... Thanks for mentioning in here as I'm sure it will be useful in the future.  Cool
 

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Reply #39 - 9th May, 2009 at 2:07pm

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Thanks, Travis! This makes that technique even better!  Cool
 

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Reply #40 - 27th Nov, 2009 at 3:02pm

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Some impressive work there Björn, have been long awaiting a model of a Do328 for some time.  Please let me know if you need any last minute images of the bird (real life) - I certainly have a fair few !
« Last Edit: 27th Nov, 2009 at 5:17pm by Southwest »  
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Reply #41 - 30th Nov, 2009 at 7:34pm

Björn   Offline
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Southwest wrote on 27th Nov, 2009 at 3:02pm:
Please let me know if you need any last minute images of the bird (real life) - I certainly have a fair few !


I'll get back to that, should the need arise. Thanks!
 

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Reply #42 - 12th Dec, 2009 at 8:03am

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Have you had anymore success with the textures Bjorn ?
 
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Reply #43 - 12th Dec, 2009 at 2:18pm

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Haven't spent a single second on the model ever since.

Lacking the motivation to go on at the moment.
 

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Reply #44 - 13th Dec, 2009 at 6:35am

Southwest   Offline
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Shame to hear that Bjorn, was looking forward to your model !  Cry
 
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Reply #45 - 13th Dec, 2009 at 2:52pm

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I've got all the time in the world, especially since there's no FS XI in sight. So you'll get your 328 eventually.
 

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Reply #46 - 15th Dec, 2009 at 6:46pm

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Yes, I have been plodding on the Starship for 8 years now (actually coming up to 9...) Sometimes it just languished on my drive for six, nine months at a time, sometimes I had a burst of work on it. Keep plodding away, Bjorn, the project is looking pretty good. Let's see which one of us releases first!  Wink
 

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Reply #47 - 16th Dec, 2009 at 8:43am

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No problem Bjorn, after all it is your model etc....  Smiley

No rush at all.
 
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Reply #48 - 16th Dec, 2009 at 8:53am

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Bjorn, Dave, so, considering that you're all like me in that respect, does this mean that it can take longer to make an FS model than the useful lifespan of the REAL airplane?

Smiley
 

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Reply #49 - 16th Dec, 2009 at 4:58pm

Björn   Offline
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Quote:
Bjorn, Dave, so, considering that you're all like me in that respect, does this mean that it can take longer to make an FS model than the useful lifespan of the REAL airplane?

Smiley


Well, in terms of production life span I think I'm about halfway there.  Cool  Cheesy


And Dave: It's on!  Cheesy
 

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Reply #50 - 18th Dec, 2009 at 3:56pm

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Milestone!

Finally finished mapping everything. I hope my texture layout is good enough to be repaint-friendly.


Renders:
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Excuse the checkerboard look, needed it to align textures. All textures are temporary.



Next primary mission: Hierarchy, animations and generally getting this thing ready for exporting.
Secondary mission: Real textures.


Once I've got a basic, working exterior model, I'm going to make it publically avaiable, for repaints or bug-hunting or whatever (Flying?). The plan is to have a kind of evolving model, with serveral releases over time. When everything's done there'll be a regular release to the major MSFS sites.
 

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Reply #51 - 19th Dec, 2009 at 6:53am

Southwest   Offline
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Nice to see some progress Bjorn, looking great !

Can't wait to start repainting here !
 
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Reply #52 - 19th Dec, 2009 at 10:39am

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The plane might be checkerboard textured but the modeling looks great Bjorn! Glad to see you getting back into it. Grin
 

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Reply #53 - 19th Dec, 2009 at 3:18pm

Björn   Offline
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Thanks guys!

Didn't try to go for payware quality in the modeling department, so the praise is well appreciated.
The final thing will have about 60-70000 polys for the exterior. Is that okay?
 

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Reply #54 - 24th Dec, 2009 at 2:58am

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Crikey, looking good - especially the landing gear. I need to catch up a little! I should do a poly count on mine, I am curious to compare now...
 

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Reply #55 - 25th Dec, 2009 at 1:54pm

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Thanks Dave!
 

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Reply #56 - 9th Jan, 2010 at 2:25pm

Southwest   Offline
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How's the texture mapping looking Bjorn ?
 
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Reply #57 - 9th Jan, 2010 at 6:33pm

Björn   Offline
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No offense, but every time someone asks for progress I wanna terminate work on this model.


(I'm done with mapping and slowly doing animations. Need to learn working with bones though.)
 

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Reply #58 - 18th Mar, 2010 at 8:12pm

Björn   Offline
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First FSX screenshots:
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Don't expect too much, please.  Smiley
 

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Reply #59 - 23rd Mar, 2010 at 1:58pm

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Status update.

Props feathered, spoilers deployed, whacky shading on aileron.
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Trim tabs at work.
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Flaps fully deployed.
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Rudder fully kicked, elevator fully deployed and trimmed, shading problems detected.
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Pax door view, cargo compartment door in the background.
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Feather...
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...and unfeather.
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Emptiness. Soon to be filled with very ugly low poly seats.
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Nose gear detail. Bug fortunately not visible.
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Low poly VC anyone? Haha!
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Note the buggy damper on the MLG.
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Bags, please!
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The door...again.
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Folding mechanism.
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To-do-list:
Fix the most obvious bugs.
Make some *real* textures.
Do basic .cfg work.
Attach lights.
Get some tinted glass working, not that fully transparent BS.
 

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Reply #60 - 25th Mar, 2010 at 12:53pm

Southwest   Offline
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Real nice work Bjorn, good to see you got it in sim now.
 
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Reply #61 - 30th Apr, 2010 at 12:14am

Eduardo Fadul   Offline
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wow great work i want to fly this bird with the Satena's scheme, if u need help for this liveries just told me  Grin

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Regards
 

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Reply #62 - 30th Apr, 2010 at 11:58am

Björn   Offline
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Quote:
wow great work i want to fly this bird with the Satena's scheme, if u need help for this liveries just told me  Grin


A (user friendly) paint kit will be provided, so paint away. Wink

I'm more a friend of the european and (ex-)US users of the 328, yet I'm still not sure if I want to paint her at all. Maybe just the "lazy man's" liveries, like Piedmont (US Airways Express) and Cirrus airways.  Grin
 

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Reply #63 - 15th Jun, 2010 at 1:05pm

Björn   Offline
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Recent pics:

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Showing off the decals (a clone of the polies in the area with a transparent texture (except for what's drawn on it) - see number, rivets, excape hatch)
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I've still got problems with the rudder spring tab 'though. It just won't center if there's no rudder input.

Here's the XML code:
Code:
<PartInfo>
        <Name>rudder_spring_tab</Name>
        <AnimLength>100</AnimLength>
        <Animation>
            <Parameter>
               <Code>                    
                  (A:AIRSPEED TRUE, knots) 160 &lt;
                 if{ (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) } els{ 50 }
               </Code>
            </Parameter>
        </Animation>
</PartInfo> 



Other than that, I'm nearly done with the exterior.  Cool
 

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Reply #64 - 15th Jun, 2010 at 7:36pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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The tab will only center if you are flying FASTER than 160 kias...

Isn't that backwards?
 

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Reply #65 - 16th Jun, 2010 at 1:14am

Mark958   Offline
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That looks great Bjorn!
 

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Reply #66 - 16th Jun, 2010 at 7:52am

Southwest   Offline
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Simply stunning!
 
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Reply #67 - 16th Jun, 2010 at 10:20am

Björn   Offline
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Quote:
The tab will only center if you are flying FASTER than 160 kias...

Isn't that backwards?


Well, it's supposed to ONLY WORK BELOW 160 KIAS and stay centered otherwise.
 

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Reply #68 - 18th Jun, 2010 at 4:03am

Willem   Offline
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As far as i know a spring tab is there to assist the pilot in moving the control surface when the aerodynamic forces are getting higher (ie flying faster) and the surface is getting harder to move. This is especially true with mechanical control systems, with cables, pulleys and rods only.

On hydraulic control systems this is not an issue because there you don't move the surfaces themselves but rather a servo valve which in turn operates a hydraulic actuator and that moves the surface, during normal hydraulic operation of course. In fact in hydraulic flight control systems many times you will find some form of bungee system which is used to give the pilots artifical feel.
But this has nothing to do with spring tabs...so back on topic  Roll Eyes

So that means that at lower speeds the tab should stay centered and at higher speeds it should deflect - in the opposite direction of the main control surface (this causes aerodynamic forces to operate on the control surface and help push it in the right direction).
Also it is a proportional deflection, in other words the harder the main surface can be moved, the more deflection the tab will give (up to a certain maximum of course).

This is the way it works on an F27 and Fokker 50 anyway, by means of a torsion bar which is located in the root of the aileron.
On ground when you move the ailerons on these aircraft, they deflect normally and the spring tabs remain in line with the ailerons. If one holds the aileron in position and another person would move the control wheel, you are already able to see the deflection of the spring tab.

So maybe you can take this into consideration.

Otherwise, a very nice piece of work!

grt
Willem.
 

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Reply #69 - 18th Jun, 2010 at 4:46pm

Björn   Offline
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The tab on the 328 doesn't work that way. It moves below 160 KIAS and stays locked above to prevent any potential overstressing of the rudder assembly by excessive deflection. See Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register for an example of how wrong application of rudder can lead to disaster.

I don't know if this accident had anything to do with it and how Dornier implemented it exactly but I know that the -130 version of the 328 features a mechanism that makes moving the rudder at higher speeds harder.

So all I really want is that effin' tab to move below 160 KIAS and doing nothing at any higher speed.



P.S: For easing roll movements, the 328 has roll spoilers.
 

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Reply #70 - 19th Jun, 2010 at 4:14am

Willem   Offline
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Okay.
Code:
<Code>                    
                  (A:AIRSPEED TRUE, knots) 160 &lt;
                 if{ (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) } els{ 50 }
               </Code> 



It says here that the animation must be (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) if the airspeed is less than 160 knots in other words it deflects with the same value as (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) in that case, and if the airspeed is not less than 160 the value is 50.
So that is the other way around from what you want.
Changing the &lt; into &gt; should fix this.

You should also check what value range (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) returns. if it is between 0-100 (percent) and you have animated the tab accordingly, it should work. But i read somewhere that these variables sometimes also return a value between 0-1, in which case your tab would be virtually stuck to one side if animated between 0-100 keyframes.

Hope this helps.

grt
Willem.

ps your system is something in the line of a so-called rudder limiter, which limits the travel of the rudder above certain speeds. This to prevent overstressing the airframe...
i guess the Airbus showed that even that is not a guarantee that a pilot can't wreck the aircraft when it gets abused.
 

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Reply #71 - 19th Jun, 2010 at 11:49am

Björn   Offline
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Willem wrote on 19th Jun, 2010 at 4:14am:
Okay.
Code:
<Code>                    
                  (A:AIRSPEED TRUE, knots) 160 &lt;
                 if{ (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) } els{ 50 }
               </Code> 



It says here that the animation must be (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) if the airspeed is less than 160 knots in other words it deflects with the same value as (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) in that case, and if the airspeed is not less than 160 the value is 50.
So that is the other way around from what you want.
Changing the &lt; into &gt; should fix this.


Aha. Doesn't make any sense to me (could it be that XML has the most illogical code syntax ever conceived?) but okay, I'll try that.

Quote:
You should also check what value range (A:RUDDER DEFLECTION PCT, percent) returns. if it is between 0-100 (percent) and you have animated the tab accordingly, it should work. But i read somewhere that these variables sometimes also return a value between 0-1, in which case your tab would be virtually stuck to one side if animated between 0-100 keyframes.


Bill Leaming posted instructions for a "aircraft variable readout" gauge to put into panels over at FSDeveloper. I'll give that a try to determine the output range of "Rudder Deflection Pct".

Quote:
ps your system is something in the line of a so-called rudder limiter, which limits the travel of the rudder above certain speeds. This to prevent overstressing the airframe...
i guess the Airbus showed that even that is not a guarantee that a pilot can't wreck the aircraft when it gets abused.


Yeah. Technology doesn't necessarily always raise safety.
 

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Reply #72 - 19th Jun, 2010 at 2:26pm

Mathias   Offline
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That code will do nothing because you have an A:Variable (which is read-only) in the if-statement  but no L: or K: that would trigger a command of sorts.
The if statement is also missing the value. The els statement doesn't make sense either, 50 what?
So without reading through the complete post, you want to let the springtab move when airspeed is below 160knots and rudder deflection is at 50 percent or higher? Is that correct?
 

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Reply #73 - 19th Jun, 2010 at 4:01pm

Björn   Offline
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Mathias wrote on 19th Jun, 2010 at 2:26pm:
So without reading through the complete post, you want to let the springtab move when airspeed is below 160knots and rudder deflection is at 50 percent or higher? Is that correct?


Nooooo!


If [ (TAS) < 160 KIAS ] then [spring tab moving with rudder input] else [centered]


As I said: XML does not make any sense syntax-wise! It's like bavarian!  Sad
 

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Reply #74 - 19th Jun, 2010 at 4:39pm

Mathias   Offline
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Ah ok, that simple.
Do you want the tab to actually "trim" the aircraft or do you just want the visuals?
 

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Reply #75 - 19th Jun, 2010 at 4:56pm

Björn   Offline
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Mathias wrote on 19th Jun, 2010 at 4:39pm:
Do you want the tab to actually "trim" the aircraft or do you just want the visuals?


The visuals will do for a start.


For actual trimming I'd have to get into SimConnect anyways (reduce the rudder effectiveness).
 

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Reply #76 - 20th Jun, 2010 at 4:20am

Mathias   Offline
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Ok, I'm sure the gurus will come up with a smarter solution but here goes:

You need two code bits, one for the springtab and another one for a controller.
You can implement the controller either as a piece of code into the model or alternatively as a gauge.
Each way has it's pros and cons.
Here is the model solution:

Firs the code for the springtab:

Code:
    <Animation name="rudder_spring_tab" guid="31E6E2B4-D2C5-4917-A95F-8D8E7E3C9D53" length="50" type="Sim" typeparam2="rudder_spring_tab" typeparam="AutoPlay" />

 <PartInfo>
  <Name>rudder_spring_tab</Name>  
  <AnimLength>50</AnimLength>    
   <Animation>  
     <Parameter>      
      <Code>(L:RudderSpringTab, enum) 25 *</Code>  
      <Lag>200</Lag>
     </Parameter>  
   </Animation>  
</PartInfo>	 



That's simply three positions:
pos 0 at keyframe 0 is full left deflection
pos 1 at keyframe 25 is neutral
pos 3 at keyframe 50 is full right deflection.
You can play with the LAG value to get the desired animation speed.
Animation length divided by Lag = animation speed in seconds.

Below is the controller code.
You would make a simple plane or triangle at a hidden spot of your model and apply it using the animation manager.
No need to actually add keyframes to it.


Code:
   <Animation name="rudder_spring_tab_controller" guid="4D5B0073-3FCC-4685-B04B-D7691CB2EC22" length="50" type="Sim" typeparam2="rudder_spring_tab_controller" typeparam="AutoPlay" />


 <PartInfo>
  <Name>rudder_spring_tab_controller</Name>  
  <AnimLength>50</AnimLength>    
   <Animation>  
     <Parameter>    
         <Code>
         -5 5 (A:RUDDER POSITION, percent) rng (A:AIRSPEED TRUE, knots) 161 &gt; or
         if{ 1 (&gt;L:RudderSpringTab,enum) }
         (A:AIRSPEED TRUE, knots) 160 &lt; (A:RUDDER POSITION, percent) -6 &lt; and
         if{ 0 (&gt;L:RudderSpringTab,enum) }
         (A:AIRSPEED TRUE, knots) 160 &lt; (A:RUDDER POSITION, percent) 6 &gt; and
         if{ 2 (&gt;L:RudderSpringTab,enum) }
         </Code>  
     </Parameter>  
   </Animation>  
</PartInfo>	  



Neutral rudder position is at 0 percent, left position are negative values, right position are positive values.
You see in the first part of the code that you a +-5 percent neutral range.
The deflection begins at -6, +6 degree deflection respectively.
You can play with tha values.
 

Mathias&&
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Reply #77 - 22nd Jun, 2010 at 5:44pm

Mathias   Offline
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Hat's Dir die Sprache verschlagen? Wink
 

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Reply #78 - 23rd Jun, 2010 at 11:12am

Björn   Offline
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Noch nicht ausprobiert.

Vitus hat mir erstmal noch meinen Standardcode aufpoliert; hab den aber noch nicht probiert.
Dein Ansatz wäre dann die zweite Lösung.
 

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Reply #79 - 20th Jul, 2010 at 8:26pm

Björn   Offline
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Thanks for the code, Mathias!

I still need to tweak those numbers, but it works so far! And that's very, very good!
 

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Reply #80 - 22nd Jul, 2010 at 7:55pm

Björn   Offline
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Nearly there...

Might need to bring the rainbow effect on the windows out more...
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Now also available with APU.
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The spoilers now appear to have actuators.
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I can't get the landing lights sorted though. They do whatever they want...except being yellow and illuminate stuff.

Might be time to do those 3D lights...
 

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Reply #81 - 23rd Jul, 2010 at 1:07am

Björn   Offline
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If you're a developer and reading this thread, take a look here:
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Help would be greatly appreciated. Smiley
 

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Reply #82 - 23rd Jul, 2010 at 11:11am

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Answered there...
 

Fr. Bill
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Reply #83 - 28th Jul, 2010 at 10:55pm

Björn   Offline
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"So this is what they call another endless night..." *Hums away*

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Reply #84 - 9th Aug, 2010 at 12:36am

DaveNunez   Offline
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Looking sweet - planning a VC?
 

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Reply #85 - 9th Aug, 2010 at 9:54am

Björn   Offline
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DaveNunez wrote on 9th Aug, 2010 at 12:36am:
Looking sweet - planning a VC?


Are you kidding?

If it wasn't for a VC I wouldn't have even started!  Cheesy


(There *is* a VC already, but it's merely a clone of the cockpit from the external model. Once I got the outside stuff done, I'll take care of the cockpit.)
 

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Reply #86 - 3rd Sep, 2010 at 11:26am

Björn   Offline
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Just to support my latest post in Nate's Bell 407 thread...

A link to the latest pics of the 328. (Subject: Lighting)
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Reply #87 - 23rd Nov, 2010 at 4:59pm

Björn   Offline
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Update...


Secondary lights:

Daytime - a weak ground splash and a weakly illuminated lamp (probably invisible due to the white livery):
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Dusk - the lights growing stronger and more visible:
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Dusk with rain - in areas with high humidity (rain, clouds) the light beams will become visible:
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Nighttime - party on!
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Nighttime with rain - beams!
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Cabin lighting:
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Modeled lighting is a tedious affair, but so much more flexible than simple night textures. (Variable intensity!)
 

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Reply #88 - 4th Dec, 2010 at 3:15pm

Southwest   Offline
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Wow - nice work on the lighting effects Björn!
 
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Reply #89 - 23rd Dec, 2010 at 8:02am

Björn   Offline
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Reply #90 - 23rd Dec, 2010 at 10:43am

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Wow! Thanks for the early Christmas present! I'm looking forward to installing and checking it out... Wink
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
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Reply #91 - 23rd Dec, 2010 at 4:49pm

Björn   Offline
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Quote:
Wow! Thanks for the early Christmas present! I'm looking forward to installing and checking it out... Wink


Thank you, oh my *Max and XML Lord!  Grin



P.S:
Forgot the light control panel. And I won't have access to my main PC for the next two weeks. So I had to do a replica, which is untested in FSX. Uploading a fixed version now. Lips Sealed
 

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Reply #92 - 26th Mar, 2011 at 3:35pm

Björn   Offline
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*Hums horribly off key*

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Why do pylons and engine nacelles need to have the most complicated shape possible?  Tongue
 

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