Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
  Visit YaBB today Wink

FFDS Home | TIPS Section | Tutorials Section | Resources Section | Utilities Section

Military | FSDS | Jetliners | Real Planes Section | Gmax | Rotorcraft | Business | Civilian

  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
 
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
Propeller disc bloom using FSDSXTweak ? (Read 11140 times)
28th Apr, 2009 at 1:30pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Guys

Has anyone found out how to use the FSX default prop disc bloom on a model from FSDS3.51

it's the only feature i have not yet managed to get working (apart from bones) which i don't need currently.

I can set normal specularity and normal bloom but not the nice little patch of bloom like the default prop discs.

the only Non default model i have seen is Danno's Vickers Wellington

Regards
Rick

Edit: after a bit more looking the default effect works with "Bloom" off  Shocked so must be a tag to make the effect work as it's not bloom in the normal sense
anyone know the material settings  in FSX for default prop discs may be a more accurate question  Wink
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - 28th Apr, 2009 at 9:59pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
This has to be a combo of properties, because there is no 'prop' related properties specifically mentioned in the .x file header. Warning: voodoo ahead.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - 28th Apr, 2009 at 10:58pm

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
DaveNunez wrote on 28th Apr, 2009 at 9:59pm:
Warning: voodoo ahead.

Wozza chases chickens around back yard....ok fire away Im ready Cheesy
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - 29th Apr, 2009 at 4:16am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Guys

I guess it's something to do with the glossiness setting in the material
we only have that as a seperate texture i think like specular.

it's just a hurdle i want to crack as soon as i can as it's been bugging me a while now. Wink

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - 2nd May, 2009 at 1:55pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
As far as I can tell, the glossiness parameter of the material is ignored if you have a spcular map, because the alpha channel of the specular map is in fact the specularity (glossiness seems to apply to materials without a spec map).

Maybe if someone posted a screenshot of the effect in question we can scrutinize it a little more closely?
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - 5th May, 2009 at 5:58am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

Did some more testing over the weekend

it's definately a materials thing as i renamed the B350 prop texture so it wouldn't find it and in the sim the propeller disc is black with the point of light on it's surface

thats without having bloom turned on in the sim

so there must be another switch for that effect i guess.

I need to find GMAX and look at that default DC3 prop disc.

Regards
Rick

edit
added forgotten pic of B350 with texture removed
  Roll EyesMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - 5th May, 2009 at 11:46pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Ok! That looks like a high specularity on the disc material as you suspected (in gmax they call it glossiness). You can set that up through the new version on FSDSxTweak (can't recall the version number, but it is the only version on AVSIM these days (if their library is back up).
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - 6th May, 2009 at 5:46am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

I have tried tweak v 2.4 but cannot see any effect of adding specular base material with it
ie: it does not do what it should so gone back to specular maps again as that works fine.

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - 6th May, 2009 at 11:19pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Oh, I thought I had that in there!

Well, at least you figured out a way to do it.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - 7th May, 2009 at 6:58am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

No i ment i can't get specular base material to function using tweak 2.4

not that i had worked out the propeller material  Wink

still can't make FSX propdisc material

what is "Blinn" shading as thats what is used on the default propdics

they are (in 3dsMax)

Blinn Basic perameters

Ambient 150,150,150
Diffuse 150,150,150
specular 240,240,240
opacity 100
specular level 30
Glossiness 10%
soften 0.1
Use global enviroment =1
Reflection scale 10%
specular map power scale 25%
Allow Bloom=1
specular bloom floor 0.9
ambient light scale 1.0

framebuffer blend
SrcAlpha
InvSrcAlpha
NoShadow=1

glossiness seems to be the one i think

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - 8th May, 2009 at 12:13am

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
AFAIK, blinn is the standard material. Glossiness is in fact the parameter you want to play with here.

In fsdsxtwek_edit 2.4: Under the materials tab, you can set this. I have called it Specular:

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

You can change the color and power separately.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - 8th May, 2009 at 12:56pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I used to have a life:
now I have GMax...
Hammond, IN

Gender: male
Posts: 5426
*****
 
It has always been my understanding that the only two "Blinn" parameters that're used are Specular Power and Opacity. In the document "New Aircraft Procedures" if you examine the "recipies" carefully, you'll note that the only time Opacity is specified is in the case of "Glass," and that only that it be "less than 50."  Actual Specular is set further down in the Enhanced Parameters using "Specular Map Power Scale."

Interestingly enough, the "recipie for Glass" doesn't call for any Specular at all:

Quote:
Propeller
This is used for propeller discs that have partial transparency.

Assign the diffuse image by checking the Diffuse Color box and selecting an appropriate diffuse color map.  In this case, the bitmap should have an alpha channel or transparency layer (32 bit).

Under Bloom, check the Allow bloom box, move the slider for Specular Bloom Floor to 0.9, and move the slider for ambient light scale to 1.0.

Under Framebuffer Blend, click on Set Default Transparent.  Source Blend and Destination Blend are set to SrcAlph and InvSrcAlpha, respectively, and under Enhanced Parameters check No shadow, which should look better than a completely opaque shadow.


Here is the FSX Material definition for the DC-3's prop_blurred disk. I see no mention of any of the other Blinn parameters:

Code:
Material FSX_DC3_Prop0 {
  0.588000; 0.588000; 0.588000; 0.900000;;
  0.000000;
  0.019608; 0.019608; 0.019608;;
  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;;
  TextureFileName {
     "Prop_DC3.dds";
  }
  DiffuseTextureFileName  {
    "Prop_DC3.dds";
  }
  FS10Material {
    0.588000; 0.588000; 0.588000; 0.900000;; // Diffuse component
    0.019608; 0.019608; 0.019608;;     // Specular component
    0.000000;		  // Specular power
    1.000000; 1.000000;	    // Detail and bump scales
    1.000000;		  // Scale environment level factor
    0;		  // Do not use global environment
    0;		  // Do not blend env by inv diffuse alpha
    0;		  // Do not blend env by specular map alpha
    0; 0; 0;	// Fresnel - diffuse = NO, Specular = NO, Env = NO
    0; 0; 0.000000;	// Precipitation - Use = NO, Offset = NO
    64.000000;		  // Specular Map Power Scale
    "SrcAlpha"; "InvSrcAlpha";  // Src/Dest blend
    BlendDiffuseByBaseAlpha  {
	0;
    }
    BlendDiffuseByInverseSpecularMapAlpha  {
	0;
    }
    AllowBloom  {
	1;
    }
    SpecularBloomFloor  {
	0.900000;
    }
    EmissiveData  {
	"AdditiveNightOnly";  // Emissive mode
    }
    AlphaData  {
	0;  // ZTest Alpha
	0.000000;  // Alpha test threshold
	"Never";  // Alpha test function
	0;  // Perform final alpha write
	255.000000;  // Final alpha value
    }
    EnhancedParameters  {
	0;  // Assume vertical normal
	0;  // Z-Write alpha
	0;  // No Z-Write
	0;  // Volume shadow
	1;  // No shadow
	0;  // Prelit vertices
    }
    BaseMaterialSkin {
	0;  // Skinned
    }
    DoubleSidedMaterial {
	0;  // Double sided
    }
    BlendConstantSetting {
	0;  // Blend constant
    }
    ForceTextureAddressWrapSetting {
	0;  // Force texture address wrap
    }
    ForceTextureAddressClampSetting {
	0;  // Force texture address clamp
    }
    BaseMaterialSpecular {
	1;  // AllowBaseMaterialSpecular
    }
    NoSpecularBloom {
	1;  // AllowSpecularBloom
    }
    EmissiveBloom {
	0;  // AllowEmissiveBloom
    }
    AmbientLightScale  {
	1.000000;
    }
    DiffuseTextureFileName  {
	"Prop_DC3.dds";
    }
    FresnelTextureFileName  {
	"fresnel_ramp.dds";
    }
  }
 // End FS10Material
}		// End Material 'FSX_DC3_Prop0'
}		// End MaterialList for 'prop0_blurred_400'
 

 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
IP Logged
 
Reply #12 - 8th May, 2009 at 9:31pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Yes, interesting indeed. I notice material specular does play a role though - notice the specular component (color) is set to non 0, and further down, the

BaseMaterialSpecular {
     1;  // AllowBaseMaterialSpecular
    }


is set.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #13 - 9th May, 2009 at 12:26am

Fr. Bill   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I used to have a life:
now I have GMax...
Hammond, IN

Gender: male
Posts: 5426
*****
 
The specular component (color) values are only used if you do not include a separate Specular Color bitmap w/Alpha, otherwise the spec color bitmap is applied pixel-to-pixel with the diffuse color bitmap to specify the color and diffusion of the highlights.  

The DC-3's FSX Material for the prop_blurred has only a Diffuse Color bitmap w/Alpha for transparency. Cool
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
IP Logged
 
Reply #14 - 9th May, 2009 at 1:26am

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Oh, I was under the impression that if you had

BaseMaterialSpecular {
     1;  // AllowBaseMaterialSpecular
    }

if the material the base material was also applied.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #15 - 9th May, 2009 at 12:41pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

I am not trying to be annoying but have you actually managed to get tweak 2.4 to make a specular material without a specular texture as nothing i have tried had worked so far
on any material.

seems to be ignored by XtoMdl for me.

My SDK is fully upto date and working properly but no tweak seems to make it or anything specular here.

just wondered if it was just not functioning for some reason.

Regards
Rick Wink
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #16 - 9th May, 2009 at 1:49pm

PutPut   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I have a life; I still
use FSDS!
Long Beach, Ca.

Gender: male
Posts: 671
*****
 
I have only tried it on a simple test case, but I got the same results as Rick; namely, "no shine".  This was done in the "no texture" mode.  I am not an expert at reading .x files but the tweak does seem to add to the .x file but nothing happens in FSX.  I am running FSX - Acceleration have the Acceleration SDK installed and am running XP-SP-3.
Hope this will be able to work as I miss being able to add "dynamic shine" to the material like in FS9.

Paul
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #17 - 9th May, 2009 at 1:58pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Paul

yes mate i prefer to set the base material as specular rather than having to have another texture.

I would in preference only use a specular texture for a part than need a complex specular effect rather than a generic part.

it's a waste of HDD space having to use extra textures for non descript parts.

I am pretty sure that tweak 2.4 is not making the base material specular at the moment so i guess it's just a small bug.

Hoping Dave doesn't think i am being cheeky as the tweak program has been a lifesaver for me and it a superb product that anyone else would have made payware (I would have gladly payed for it) Smiley

after how much my Hawk was pirated i am not bothering with any more payware currently as it's not worth the effort and expence involved
so back to freeware for me for at least the near future  Wink

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #18 - 10th May, 2009 at 2:19am

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Well, I guess I'd better dig up the ol' source code and have a look at it.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #19 - 10th May, 2009 at 3:37am

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Ok, seems simple enough - just one parameter missing from the FS10Material block.

I have a buddy build ready for someone to test - what it does now is once all the tweaks are complete, it runs through the entire file again, and for each material which has a base material specular power set to more than 0, it adds the missing BaseMaterialSpecular block. It will do this for both textured and untextured parts. That means that if in the FSDS material editor you set a specular power value, it will now take effect in the sim as it did for FS9 (not sure why it was left out of the FSDS compilation process).

Download from here:
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Please post here with your experiences of it. Once we know it works, I will package it up and post to AVSIM for a formal update.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #20 - 10th May, 2009 at 2:59pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

Still no change for me with the new file.

No specular base material is ending up in FSX

Sorry mate

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #21 - 10th May, 2009 at 3:06pm

PutPut   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I have a life; I still
use FSDS!
Long Beach, Ca.

Gender: male
Posts: 671
*****
 
Same here; the tweak is adding statements to the .x file, but they don't do anything in FSX.  Wonder if there is just an incompatibility with XtoMdl? Hope it can be found; I for one would really like this capability, and Rick for two!

Paul
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #22 - 10th May, 2009 at 8:13pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Is this on a textured, or non-textured part?

Any chance one of you fine gentlemen can send over the _temp.x and KFG file you are using to help in debugging?

« Last Edit: 11th May, 2009 at 12:24am by DaveNunez »  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #23 - 11th May, 2009 at 4:11am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

Have tried the part both textured & untextured whith no luck


this is my tweak entry following Bill's information

[texture.2]
identifier=prop.bmp
specular=prop_spec.dds
diffuse_a=1
diffuse_r=0.588
diffuse_g=0.588
diffuse_b=0.588
specular_r=0.99
specular_g=0.99
specular_b=0.99
specular_power=0
UseGlobalEnvironment=1
environment_level_scale=0.1
fresnel=Fresnel_Ramp.dds
FresnelEnvironment=1
NoShadow=1
SpecularMapPowerScale=64
SourceBlend=SrcAlpha
DestinationBlend=SrcAlpha
AllowBloom=1
SpecularBloomFloor=0.9


Have tried specular power entry at 64 too but above is closest to Bill's listing

the odd thing about Bill's list is it says SpecularMapPowerScale=64
when there is supposed to be no spec map in use.

So have tried both Map & power entries

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #24 - 11th May, 2009 at 7:26am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

Right have noticed that with 2.6 tweak that my FSDS specular materials have been used and show in FSX

this is with no specular map added via the tweak

I missunderstood what you ment

Guessing you mean the materials go straight from FSDS into FSX instead of having to apply the manual tweak???

off to test a bit more Wink

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #25 - 11th May, 2009 at 1:08pm

PutPut   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I have a life; I still
use FSDS!
Long Beach, Ca.

Gender: male
Posts: 671
*****
 
WOW!  Got it to work!  See the picture below.  What did I do different?  I finally loaded Tweak 2.4 inside FSDS rather than running it as a stand alone. (Don't faint, Felix).  After spending some time entering the RIGHT paths etc. it seemed to work.  This morning I installed tweak2.6.exe and the picture shows what I got on the first compile.  There are no textures involved.  Here is what showed up in the kfg file:

[texture.0]
identifier=shine
diffuse_a=1
diffuse_r=0.5
diffuse_g=0.5
diffuse_b=0.9960938
specular_r=0.75
specular_g=0.75
specular_b=0.75
specular_power=1

[contact_global]
emergency_extension_type=0
gear_system_type=4
tailwheel_lock=0

The only negative I see is I "thought" I was applying shine only to the blue objects, but it shows on the gray fuse also

Cheers,  Paul

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #26 - 11th May, 2009 at 6:59pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Great! Nice to see this is working in 2.6.

Paul, I am worried a bit that you are seeing spec shine on the grey material when you didn't mean to... do a me favour - go into the material editor inside FSDS and check what the specualr power is there for the grey stuff. If it is not 0 then you will see that shine (set it to 0 to get rid of it).
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #27 - 11th May, 2009 at 7:41pm

PutPut   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I have a life; I still
use FSDS!
Long Beach, Ca.

Gender: male
Posts: 671
*****
 
No, that isn't it.  The fuse is assigned the straight Default material with zero specular power.  When I open fsdsxtweak_edit.exe I see 2 materials, but Default is not one of them  I see a material called shine which is correct for the blue material.  The other material is testie.bmp which isn't even in this .fsc.  The .x file has stuff in it from previous use of the test model but has been deleted from this .fsc.  I don't know where it is being picked up. Sad

Paul
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #28 - 11th May, 2009 at 10:51pm

PutPut   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I have a life; I still
use FSDS!
Long Beach, Ca.

Gender: male
Posts: 671
*****
 
OK, I'm not sure were it was picking up the extraneous data, but I solved the problem by removing ALL the temp files in the FSDS folder then compiling the project without tweaks, then compiled again with tweaks.  I now have a wing with shine and a dull fuselage like it is designed.

Paul
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #29 - 11th May, 2009 at 11:01pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Woohoo!

Next time I have some time and some ebergy (not often do those two line up), I will update the docs and wrap it up as a new release.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #30 - 12th May, 2009 at 1:50pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
I used to have a life:
now I have GMax...
Hammond, IN

Gender: male
Posts: 5426
*****
 
DaveNunez wrote on 11th May, 2009 at 6:59pm:
Great! Nice to see this is working in 2.6.

Paul, I am worried a bit that you are seeing spec shine on the grey material when you didn't mean to... do a me favour - go into the material editor inside FSDS and check what the specualr power is there for the grey stuff. If it is not 0 then you will see that shine (set it to 0 to get rid of it).


From the "For What It's Worth Department..."

I noticed this interesting bit in the "FSX Material" document of the SDK, which only appears if you select the "Diffuse w/Specular 1" image under "The base material properties" animated image:

Quote:
Notes: Base Material with subtle specular. Mid grey specular color makes softer specular highlight. Value of 50 makes medium sized hotspot.
(Note: because raising something to the 0 power results in 1, a Specular Value of 0 will automatically become 50.)


I've highlighted the (new to me) information in bold+red in the quoted section above.  It would appear that we must always set at least a value of 1 for Specular Level in order to (almost) completely eliminate base material specular...  Shocked
 

Fr. Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4 GB DDRII Crucial PC6400-500 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB
IP Logged
 
Reply #31 - 12th May, 2009 at 9:32pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Interesting yes. Well, the way FSDSxTweak now works, a specular value of 0 will result in no specularity at all, because of the missing EnableBaseMaterialSpecular block.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #32 - 25th Dec, 2009 at 5:24am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Guys

Happy Christmas Wink

I still have not managed to get the propeller disc material bloom effect to work from FSDS 3.51

it's definately a material tag somwhere in XtoMdl as it blooms wiith the texture removed

Regards
Rick Wink
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #33 - 25th Dec, 2009 at 1:29pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Merry Christmas, you big Brit!  Cheesy

I will check again to see if I have missed any material properties by looking at the .x file schema.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #34 - 25th Dec, 2009 at 3:04pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

the effect shows best on the VC view of the default Beech Baron twin if that helps

Happy Christmas and huge respect & thanks to everyone that made the tweak program a reality Wink

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #35 - 25th Dec, 2009 at 6:48pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
How about to show your xmas spirit you just give us a tiny teaser of your current project (or shall we just start calling you scrooge right now  Wink )
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #36 - 25th Dec, 2009 at 7:01pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

Real life and not being good enough at texturing or XML have slowed me up mate.

Freeware FSX Native HP.137 Jetstream 1 (T1 & T2)
the original with the Turbomecha Astazou engines

full 3d Cockpit with only LED nav radio windows projected
everything else is 3d xml.

a huge amount of work for me

Spare time has dwindled as i have to put work first Embarrassed
Regards
RickMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #37 - 25th Dec, 2009 at 8:12pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Oh, sweet lordy, this is friggin awesome. Keep going!
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #38 - 25th Dec, 2009 at 9:53pm

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Merry Christmas tweakers Smiley
Rick that looks awesome mate,bloom sucks ...fps anyways so who needs it Wink
Wozza

 
IP Logged
 
Reply #39 - 28th Feb, 2010 at 5:58pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Rick - try out v2.8 of fsdsxtweak - it has a couple of new material properties that might help you with this effect - in particular BlendDiffuseByInverseSpecularMapAlpha might be useful
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #40 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 9:30am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

Tried with 2.8 but still can't get the specular spot on the propdiscs  Undecided

after much investigation the setting that bill showed it seems after checking that the default DC3 does not use the effect which is probably why i can't get it working

the Default Beech Baron uses the effect but only on it's VC model so i am never going to find the info i need.

the only Person making addons for FSX that has got the effect working is Daniel Dunn  Wink on his work for First Class Simulations (His superb Vickers wellington has it)

I guess i am stuck for now anyway
but thanks for everyones help

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #41 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 11:25am

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Rick do you mean something like this Smiley
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Wozza
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #42 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 11:28am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Wozza

I think thats bloom, not specular mate

I don't use Bloom as it's a frame killer and only looks realistic on glass

What i am trying to make is the specular hilite like the Baron VC propeller discs.
But if thats not with bloom then i am very interested mate  Wink

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #43 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 11:39am

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Ahh ok I just read the message heading Smiley ""Propeller disc bloom using FSDSXTweak""
The up side is I think its the same issue Wink I couldn't get bloom to work at all on the prop disk
checked the material and all was identical in the xfile, the only difference then was the texture for the prop
once I used the beach baron one it came alive big time lol.Its the way Msoft make and map the prop_blurred that makes it all work me thinks (I have no idea how though)
as I know whats happing now Ill have a bit of a tinker and see if my theory pans out ....
Wozza
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #44 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 11:50am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Wozza

While your here mate

anyone getting a CTD with the T6 ?

every time i load it i get a CTD almost immediately when it's on the ground

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #45 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 12:10pm

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Hi Mate
Yep comment out the gauge04=xml!compass,  336,729,350,350 in the vcockpit section and give it a whirl
dunno why but a few ppl have had CTD with that gauge running,I think its the bmp's but nobody's reported back that the fix worked or not Smiley

Re the spec yep was right works ok here when using the beach baron prop texture, you can also just and say just see it on the a standard run of the mill prop texture
the darker the alpha channel the lighter the effect.There some voodoo that Ms do to the props that make the effect work well.
this is the prop data Im using in fsdstweak
Wozza

[texture.5]
identifier=prop.bmp
specular=prop_spec.dds
NoShadow=1
SourceBlend=SrcAlpha
DestinationBlend=InvSrcAlpha
AllowBloom=1
AmbientLightScale=1
BloomModulatingByAlpha=1
EmissiveBloom=1
SpecularBloomFloor=0.9    
Wozza
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #46 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 12:25pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Warwick

the edit stopped my T6 CTD  Wink (so far anyway) Grin

it's odd about the beech baron prop texture as it doesn't use a specular map on the baron model
if i remove the texture the spec still shines in a nice tight spot! Undecided

whatever does the effect i am after it's in the base material, not the texture but i know what you mean about the bloom.

Guessing you mean making the spec texture's alpha channel darker lightens the bloom ?

To be honest i can't follow the FSX SDK about specular textures (mine just have a white alpha channel and effect looks ok)
25 pictures of a teapot and lots of GMAX speak just loses me as FSDS works in RGB not %

I really need to get a better understanding of how a specular texture is effected by the lightness or darkness of it's alpha channel Embarrassed

Regards
Rick

 
IP Logged
 
Reply #47 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 12:31pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Rick - aw, bugger I thought we cracked it. Ah well, just remember that a model that Perfectionist 1st Class Rick Piper thinks is 80% ok is about 99% awesome to the rest of the worlds.
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #48 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 12:37pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

I still have a lot to try mate so it may still be possible

Me! First Rate .......Nah just someone that spends far too much time trying to improve with every release.

I just like the prop spec effect as on a few of the default models thats all Grin

the real skills are from people like yourself managing to make a program to allow me to most of the FSX twinkly bits without suffering a nervous breakdown in the process Wink

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #49 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 12:48pm

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Hi Rick
Ok tried a few different texture same materials oh yeah forgot to mention I checked the ,R in fsds and used environment_level_scale=0 to kill reflection :0 (soz Ive got about 5 different cfg files for the one project Smiley )
[texture.5]
identifier=prop.bmp
specular=prop_spec.dds
NoShadow=1
environment_level_scale=0
SourceBlend=SrcAlpha
DestinationBlend=InvSrcAlpha
AllowBloom=1
AmbientLightScale=3
BloomModulatingByAlpha=1
EmissiveBloom=1
SpecularBloomFloor=0.9

1: beach prop texture
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

2: normal 3d party prop texture with a dark gray alpha
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

3:prop texture with an almost black alpha channel..you can barely see it unless your moving and even then only against dark backgrounds
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register


spec maps are easy Smiley  white alpha channel gives a hot spot,then going darker makes the hot spot larger until its basically a hue rather that a highlight
The main texture in specs denote the colour of the hot spot/hue black on black is the flatest  for things like blackouts ect
Then you throw in Fresnel_Ramp into the mix Cheesy
Wozza
 
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #50 - 1st Mar, 2010 at 1:14pm

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Not sure how this helps but finally found how the default textures are used ....I think Smiley
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #51 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 4:49am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Wozza

Just found my missing picture

this is the B350 propdisc with no texture & bloom turned off
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

I will get there if it kills me

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #52 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 6:38am

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Hi Rick
Yep the spec highlight is using the material and not the texture
Under the sdk If I understand it  Smiley material spec is no longer used and is now controlled via texture and all material settings are lost as soon as a texture is applied anyways
So from my test it appears that when the transparency is controlled by the texture you loose the brightness/ambiance of the effect if the prop disk was setup the same as a solid material for example a tire that spins just as fas as the prop the effect looks great.
Basically what Im saying Smiley I dont think its a material setting but a texture setting. Ive tried SpecularMapPowerScale= but that just increases the hotspot size not its brightness there has to be a setting somewhere Smiley
Wozza
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #53 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 6:43am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Wozza

Yes mate i get what you mean

If you can find the answer I will buy you quite a few tinnies mate Wink

Driven me nuts for almost a year trying to find the answer

i think there is a missing tag for Emmissive specular (like Emmissive Bloom)

is there any way i can discect the beech 350 prop and see whats doing it (I guess i need the X file for that?)

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #54 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 8:29am

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Hi Rick
Had a look through the sdk and at the baron/beach king air which have the effect working (shame they used the dc3 instead of these in the sdk examples)
anyway using the standard way of doing props in fsds and using pure white in both main and alpha texture for the prop_spec.dds
then using this in fsdstweak
[texture.5]
identifier=prop.bmp
specular=prop_spec.dds
SpecularMapPowerScale=255
SourceBlend=SrcAlpha
DestinationBlend=InvSrcAlpha
NoShadow=1
AllowBloom=0
(I was wrong about SpecularMapPowerScale= I assumed 1 was the default and using 10 but it uses 0 to 255 where 64 to 100 is the norm)

It looks to me to be pretty much the same as Im seeing on the baron

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Wozza
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #55 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 8:35am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Mate

Just got to finish some work stuff and i will try that one

Regards
Rick Wink
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #56 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 10:01am

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Wozza

Right done as noted but doesn't look like you have it for me.

my specular texture is now white 255 with a white 255 alpha (is that right ?)

i have a choice of the prop disc being default material or glass material what are the material specs (think this is irrellevant if tweaked after export)

I now get the specular showing but not in a spot like you have in your shot (It's over most of the disc ie: not tight & small)

does the prop disc part need to be curved in profile as mine is basically diamond shaped in side view

Sorry mate Wink

Regards
Rick
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #57 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 1:09pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Wozza

Well mate you cracked it.

it works

I have found that for me
the prop disc looked best if it was all one smoothing group
used a white alpha with a 64,64,64 Alpha channel to tune the hilite spot
I also (You know me Wozza!) used a bump map built from an image in full black with a layer of noise in white added then spun 120 degrees with Radial blur then turned into a FSX Bump Map

All the props i have seen have a sort of ragged looking hilite which is what i was after

Many thanks to everyone that helped with this saga Wink

Regards
Rick  Smiley

this is my FSDSxTweak entry to make it work properly (I turned the bloom back on and looks better with a little enviroment refection)
Texture is not tagged ,R (reflective) in FSDS 3,51 (but can be if you like)

identifier=prop.bmp
specular=prop_spec.dds
bump=prop_bump.dds
fresnel=Fresnel_Ramp.dds
environment_level_scale=0.1
SpecularMapPowerScale=255
NoShadow=1
UseGlobalEnvironment=1
FresnelSpecular=1
FresnelEnvironment=1
SourceBlend=SrcAlpha
DestinationBlend=InvSrcAlpha
AllowBloom=1
AmbientLightScale=1
BloomModulatingByAlpha=1
SpecularBloomFloor=0.9

screenshot is with bloom disabled in FSX (just Spec showing)
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #58 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 1:48pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Nice! Good job Rick, I might add this as a tutorial in the manual for the next version - would you mind sharing your bump map and spec map with me for this? (you can email them to me or post here, whatever you prefer).
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #59 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 2:04pm

Rick_Piper   Offline
LDV Engineer
No thanks!

Posts: 382
****
 
Hi Dave

sorry about size but used a big texture in 32 bit 888 dds as it has a much smoother transition but can be resized to 50% and probably will before release
I don't use Mipped textures as they just blur for most Nvidia users (you can add mips if you need to)
My FSDS material is "Prop"

Wozza & I have discovered you only need 2 materials in FSDS3.51 for FSX models

Default
Glass or Prop or Trans (same as default but 254 opacity) only so you can see it's transparent in FSDS as it's a nightmare to have it solid when your building as it gets in the way.

I halved the drawcalls for the Jetstream by converting to just these 2 materials.
you can if you don't mind it being solid in FSDS use just Default only and save more drawcalls Wink

Anyway that was not on topic but may be usefull.

Regards
Rick Wink
« Last Edit: 2nd Mar, 2010 at 6:29pm by Rick_Piper »  
IP Logged
 
Reply #60 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 6:02pm

DaveNunez   Offline
YaBB Moderator
Seattle, Washington

Gender: male
Posts: 504
*****
 
Got the file thanks!
 

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register&&Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #61 - 2nd Mar, 2010 at 8:48pm

Au-MaV   Offline
Inspecteur des Polygonnes
Whatcha lookin at
Adelaide South Australia

Gender: male
Posts: 1956
*****
 
Hi Rick
Yay Smiley glad it sorted...looks great Cheesy
Wozza
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print