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Model file size using FSDSxTweak, FSXA, FSDS 3.5.1 (Read 16535 times)
Reply #15 - 30th Jun, 2011 at 3:08pm

Hunter10   Offline
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Dave,
Thanks, lets me continue using FSDS for scenery (not that I do much of that).
There is still the issue of aircraft .MDL files being 3490KB. When I compile with FSDS only I get a .MDL of, say 2500KB. FSDS Flight Model Selection dialog has check boxes like Delete Temp Files which I always uncheck.

Scenery compilation does not include this option.

On recompiling an aircraft or helo through Tweak I get 3490KB. The XtoMdl command line you use is the same as FSDS uses except that the .X file used is different.

I just can not see where the bake-in occurs, but bake-in does describe what I have seen happening. Originally I had reasonable .MDL file sizes, later these grew and seem to have maxed out at 3490KB, so they must be filled with historical dross! But where does it come from?

Roy
 
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Reply #16 - 1st Jul, 2011 at 2:38pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Dave, is the .xanim file overwriting any previous .xanim file, or is the code simply appending the new data to a previous .xanim file?
 

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Reply #17 - 1st Jul, 2011 at 3:55pm

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Here is an interesting thing. The last line of the 2353KB .MDL for my SeaKIng Helo talks to attachpt_landing. The section before that talks to the animation in the SeaKing.

The attachpt_landing line in the 3490KB ex Tweak .MDL is about 2/3 into the .MDL file. The section before that talks to the animation in the SeaKing, same as above.

Immediately after the attachpt_landing reference another block of data starts. At the end of the file there is more animation detail which include ailerons and flaps and clearly does not belong to the SeaKing.

Looks like the first 2/3 is correct and the last 1/3 is baked in old stuff.

Roy
 
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Reply #18 - 1st Jul, 2011 at 4:33pm

Hunter10   Offline
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Did the same comparison between the scenery 90KB .MDL I mentioned a few posts earlier and the 3490KB ex Tweak version. The last lines in the 90KB .MDL refer to platforms and ends up with
3B
T!A

/AB
T!A
H@B
A
H@  I like the "AHA"!

I found the same references early in the 3490KB .MDL file.
It has:
3B
T!A

/AB
T!A
H@B
A
H@5?XANK
   
  B              ?XANS and then goes into an animation section, followed by some platform stuff. I finishes with the same fixed wing animation stuff I found at the end of the 3490KB SeaKing. MDL

About 2/3 the way through I found the attachpt_landing for the SeaKing preceded by rotor animation.

The only.xanim file in FSDS main directory is the one for the SeaKing and everything it describes is correct and specific to the SeaKing.

The majority of the baked in stuff has nothing to do with animation (no ASCII)

Where oh where is it coming from?

Roy

 
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Reply #19 - 2nd Jul, 2011 at 2:50am

Au-MaV   Offline
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Hi Roy
Your picking up the _temp.xamin file when you compile, check the CreateMdl.bat or whatever batch file your using to create the scenery file (I havnt done any scenery)
You will prob see something like this  XToMdl.exe" _temp.x /keep
/xanim
/dict: 
the compiler will then process any .xamin files it finds in the folder or path
Wozza
 
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Reply #20 - 2nd Jul, 2011 at 9:14am

Hunter10   Offline
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Hi Wozza,
Including animation does not account for the file size difference.
For example, a 2348KB .MDL file file for a SeaKing that was compiled without Tweak has only 14KB for the sections from VISL onwards. These include AMAP (animations) and REFL (attachments). The other 2336KB concerns structure and materials etc.

I used the scenery example because it was so dramatic. With no animation the .MDL was 90KB. If the SeaKing animation (it was the only .xanim file at the time) was added the .MDL should have been about 104KB.

What is happening when I compile through Tweak is that all models whether scenery, aircraft or helos are 3490KB and the additional data is added to the end of the correct .MDL.

Curiously, the flight models display correctly in FS. ADE crashes if I attempt to use it in scenery.

ModelConverterX crashes if I attempt to load a 3490KB .MDL because it runs out of memory.

Hopefully, a solution will be found.

Roy
 
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Reply #21 - 5th Jul, 2011 at 1:34pm

DaveNunez   Offline
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Fr. Bill, to answer your question - I simply compile with the xanim file that FSDS leaves there. Now we may have a bug in FSDS which appends to xanim files, and it is not usually noticed because the default state is to delete temp files after a compile (which FSDSxTweak requires you to leave behind in order to pick up the .x file).

I will look into that when I am back home.
 

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Reply #22 - 5th Jul, 2011 at 3:49pm

Hunter10   Offline
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Dave,
Here is a kind of summary of what I'm seeing.
1. When I drop the .x file on XtoMdl I obviously do not get anything to do with animation and the file is about 90KB. 

2. When I compile through FSDS with no .xanim file present, the .MDL file has an appended animation and attach point section. It is very small but it is there, includes the AMAP header, so the path must include .xanim even though there is none. This file is about 160KB. The first part is identical to case1, then there is some white space after which comes the appended TRAN, AMAP etc section.

3. When I subsequently compile through Tweak the .MDL file is identical to case 2 down to a point. However it continues thereafter with what looks like a combination of previously compiled .MDL files. For example AMAP appears three times. First where it should be, a second time where it precedes a section of helicopter animation and third where it precedes a section of fixed wing animation. Between these animation sections there is what looks like the structure data (big mess of binary)

4. Everything I compile through Tweak has a 3490KB .MDL whether it is scenery, aircraft or helicopters. It does not matter whether I select a small .MDL file for replacement or the 3490KB file for replacement, the result is 3490KB

5. When compiling scenery FSDS does not give the option of deleting temporary files and they do appear in the FSDS root directory. No .xanim file is generated because there is no animation.

Regards
Roy
 
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Reply #23 - 6th Jul, 2011 at 5:44pm

DaveNunez   Offline
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Ok, thanks, good summary. I have a theory, which I need to test:

1. FSDS has a bug whcih always adds to the xanim file after subsequent builds. This means unless you delete temp files after a build, you will have 'vestigal' anim data in your model. XtoMdl is putting a cap of 3MB on a model, whcih is why all models are the same size.

2. When you compile a model via FSDSxTweak, it always adds the xanim file into the xtomdl compilation stage, so even for scenery files, whcih don't need the data, they get injected (I know this part is true for a fact).

I will investigate 1 above later this week. If this is all true, then we will have a bit of an issue with a workaround - it may be a bit of a hack involving some extra manual steps.
 

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Reply #24 - 6th Jul, 2011 at 9:34pm

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Dave,

The "vestigal" expression makes sense, but it is not confined to anim data. So, there may be another rampant bug that also contains "non-anim" data, ie the big binary blobs.

The 3MB cap makes a lot of sense.

The .xanim append is true for both FSDS and Tweak compilations. Seen that for sure.

My main point is that the anim sections are tiny compared to the "Blobs" Something remembers previous vestigial huge Blobs and tiny anims and appends them. But it only happens after a Tweak compilation. And I can not find anything that includes the vestigial stuff. Perhaps it gets hidden?

At least FSDS lets you see the .X and .Xanim files, GMAX deletes them which is somewhat irritating and involves scratching around inside the .MDL file.

If the problem is a FSDS bug we may be a long way from seeing a fix. From what I have learned not much is going on with FSDS at the moment.

Thanks for your help. Would be really nice to fix this.

Regards
Roy
 
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Reply #25 - 7th Jul, 2011 at 12:49am

Au-MaV   Offline
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Hi Roy
Check the folder you have XToMdl.exe in, make sure there are no temp files or .x .xamin files in there
Wozza
 
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Reply #26 - 7th Jul, 2011 at 2:18am

DaveNunez   Offline
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Bad news guys, I am really struggling to reproduce this behaviour:

1. FSDS correctly creates a new xanim file with each compile.
2. FSDSxTweak correctly tweaks every model I have played with (trivial test models as well as big projects I am making). I never get a file of 3940Kb as you describe.

Do you have any special part names in your project? Perhaps if you send me you FSC file, I can see if I can repro the fault here.

In the meantime, please delete any .x and .xanim files in your fsds directory. This may help if you have files lying around which have bed permissions set on them, for instance (it's a long shot).
 

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Reply #27 - 7th Jul, 2011 at 3:50am

Au-MaV   Offline
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DaveNunez wrote on 7th Jul, 2011 at 2:18am:
Bad news guys, I am really struggling to reproduce this behaviour:

1. FSDS correctly creates a new xanim file with each compile.
2. FSDSxTweak correctly tweaks every model I have played with (trivial test models as well as big projects I am making). I never get a file of 3940Kb as you describe.

Do you have any special part names in your project? Perhaps if you send me you FSC file, I can see if I can repro the fault here.

In the meantime, please delete any .x and .xanim files in your fsds directory. This may help if you have files lying around which have bed permissions set on them, for instance (it's a long shot).

Hi mate
same here couldnt recreate the issue..but I am on XP and I have a custom install of tweak
Wozza
 
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Reply #28 - 7th Jul, 2011 at 8:11am

Hunter10   Offline
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I looked for big files in the FSDS root and Autosave.dst was around 3M. I opened it in FSDS and it showed my AH-1 helicopter!

The last time I compiled that helicopter was in January when its .MDL size was 3490KB. Opened it in Notepad and it had two AMAP sections, one helo, one fixed wing.

Deleted Autosave.dst and recompiled the scenery file. Problem gone! Guess that is where the junk was hiding. So there is something odd with Autosave.

Still strange that it only affected Tweaked models.

Thanks for the help. Lets me finish my SeaKing. Really happy the problem is gone. I'll keep an eye on Autosave!

Regards

Roy

 
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Reply #29 - 7th Jul, 2011 at 11:29am

Hunter10   Offline
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More news, some good, some bad!
I compiled my SeaKing and the Tweak version is 1KB bigger than the FSDS version for both external and internal models.
Autosave has reappeared. Now it is 6849KB, same size as the SeaKing.fsc and exportsave.

I recompiled the scenery. _temp.MDL was 161KB. _exterior.MDL was 2365KB, same size as the SeaKing.

So the problem remains. Autosave is still at 6849 while exportsave is 299. The scenery model has the SeaKing data after the scenery section at the beginning. Another thing I noticed is that it now starts before the Platform data that is part of the scenery file.

I think the problem is that autosave is not updating as it should. I have put the interval to 1 minute (was 10) and it is doing nothing. So it is out of synch with what is loaded in FSDS.

Maybe I should reinstall FSDS

Roy


 
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